PING: Charles Self

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On 12/20/2005 9:22 PM WillR mumbled something about the following:

BDS C is the only one I can remember. Targeted at the CP/M-80 systems (Z80 and Intel 8080)
--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???
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learn to deal with it, Will.. it gets worse as ya get older... Label it a "senior moment" and turn the page.. *g*
mac
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WillR wrote:

I remember! I remember! It was a company called Ecosoft - If you sent them a bug report they'd fix it and send you an updated compiler with your bug and others reported all fixed.
And yes it was CP/M.
Can I have an Ohio Scientific system instead?
--
Keep Saturn in Saturnalia

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On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:22:33 -0800, Larry Blanchard

Was it Aztec or something like that?
I had a CP/M card on my Apple II+ with 80 column card and keyboard enhancement (for that pesky upper and lower case stuff). No 8" drives, though. A friend of mine who worked at Bell Labs was on me for a long time to learn C. I somehow wound up with a C compiler, and I think I might have actually ran it once, but I was a long ways from trying C out in those days. Still am, frankly, but I don't have need for it now. You know, those who can, do, those who can't...well, I can't even do that.
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
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Oh shit... now you're making me remember my $5,000 apple II+ system... that got replaced later with a $1,000 846..
mac
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LRod wrote:

Right! I finally remembered the company (Ecosoft) but not the compiler name.
--
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On 12/21/2005 5:53 PM Larry Blanchard mumbled something about the following:

Ecosoft was EXPENSIVE, and had a nasty habit of crashing while compiling if you had a syntax error in your code instead of just reporting the syntax error.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???
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Odinn wrote:

We're really getting into off-topic old, old history here, but I can't resist one more comment.
You must have had an earlier version than I did. I remember Aztec C as very reliable on my S100 buss CP/M system. I don't recall it being expensive, but since I have no record of my purchase you may be right there.
--
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Larry Blanchard (in snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com) said:
| Odinn wrote: | ||| Right! I finally remembered the company (Ecosoft) but not the ||| compiler name. ||| || || Ecosoft was EXPENSIVE, and had a nasty habit of crashing while || compiling if you had a syntax error in your code instead of just || reporting the syntax error. | | We're really getting into off-topic old, old history here, but I | can't resist one more comment. | | You must have had an earlier version than I did. I remember Aztec | C as very reliable on my S100 buss CP/M system. I don't recall it | being expensive, but since I have no record of my purchase you may | be right there.
Ecosoft and Aztec were separate producers. I bought Eco-C and regretted the purchase. I backed up and stuck with Ron Cain's Small-C until Borland finally came out with TurboC (I still have all three of the original compilers and the T-shirt Borland sent to help purchasers feel better about having to wait three months for delivery).
IIRC, Ecosoft was located in Indianapolis and Aztec was on one coast or the other...
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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Morris Dovey wrote:

Ouch - my memory is failing. Yes, the Ecosoft product was Eco-C. I must have had some aquaintance with Aztec-C or I wouldn't have gotten them confused.
Was Aztec-C complete K&R? Double precision and all? I know Eco-C was - that was their big claim to fame.
--
It's turtles, all the way down

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I don't know for sure about CP/M. but on MS-DOS (_and_ Apple II!!) the 'native' floating-point numbeers were 8-bytes long. and were called type 'double'.
I think Aztec _might_ have lacked "enumerated bitfields", but thats about the only piece of the K&R spec that I didn't (ab)use. I could take practically anything that compiled on my real UNIX box, and Aztec C would compile it without complaining.
I *LIKED* Aztec C. It generated tight code, and minimal overhead in the executables (pulled in only routines actually used from a library, rather than including the _entire_ library, for example)
They were, unfortunately, very slow in coming out with an 'ANSI' compiler. or an IDE, and the market bypassed them.
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On 12/22/2005 11:52 AM Larry Blanchard mumbled something about the following:

Ummm, Aztec is not Ecosoft :) Manx Aztec C was plenty good, and wasn't that expensive. BDS was pretty good, but was a bit non-standard until version 1.6 or something like that. Of course, the big player was Lattice (who later sold out to Microsoft). Then there was Wizard, which Borland bought and turned into Turbo C, Borland's C (before they bought Wizard) became Top Speed, Mix who later created Power C, Datalight which became Zortech which became Symantec and somehow ended as Think C (or at least a portion of it), and not to mention a couple of others that just disappeared like DeSmet and Whitesmiths
--
Odinn - still has his copies of Manx, Power, and Turbo C, just nothing
to run them on.
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Ecosoft was _not_ the same as "Aztec C". Aztec C was put out by "Manx Software Systems", and existed for a whole variety of platforms. 8080/Z-80 under CP/M, 808x under MSDOS _and_ CP/M-86. Apple II under ProDOS, at least. I think there was a CP/M-68K version as well. And, they had _cross-compilers_ -- which would run on one type of box, and produce executables for a different kind of box.
Aztec C did vary in price, depending on what capabilities you needed. Cross-compilers were more expensive than 'native' only. the ability to create "ROM-able code", and the ability to create true 'stand-alone' programs (*no* operating-system services required), were also things you paid extra for.
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Greg G. wrote:

Thanks for the kind words.
Yes, rumors of our demise are greatly exaggerated :-) Actually, we just celebrated our 20th anniversary this November.

I know what you mean. And it just keeps getting worse. I avoid Barrett Parkway (by Town Center) if at all possible.
-- Sam Mitchell
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snipped-for-privacy@semware.com said:

Well deserved, considering the other options available at the time. I learned WordStar as my first real word processor, and the keyboard mapping allowed me to emulate it quite well. I despised WordPerfect and those annoying, inconsistent function key mappings. While there may have been a way around it, I never used it enough to find out.
The "Mark Column" feature was novel as well, as I recall (on the PC). But that was a long time ago, and I was just a lad at the time. ;-) We did computer maintenance primarily for local military installations before the infamous suspicious fires and eminent domain acquisitions of Bacon's Grand Vision for the city that National Geographic referred to as the little redneck town on the outskirts of Atlanta.
BBS's and PC bridge software to ARPANET were the norm for us. Ah, yes. I (barely) remember $450 300baud modems, Windows 1.0, the GEM GUI, CP/M, $2,000 dollar 10 meg hard drives, IBM BIOS lawsuits, FTL and Robert Voysteres, Heathkit, DRDOS, FIDOnet, the DEC Rainbow, RHIME and PCRelay. Man, I feel old...
Worked as a contractor to IBM briefly, a laughable place replete with college students in poorly-fitting polyester suits who did programming support for obsolete System 34 consoles and the fumbling, soon-to-be-released AS400 whose tape drives seemed destined to spill magnetic media onto the floor with the least hint of provocation. I hate suits - both kinds. ;-)
West Coast programmers got to wear shorts, T-shirts and beenie caps, play with rubber chickens, and I'm forced to wear an uncomfortable suit and tie while pulling floor tiles for a new network loom - for far less money than I ever made in my life!
Cripes, I sound like a now-deceased grandfather...

Congratulations! I didn't mean to imply your demise, only that I hadn't heard anything in a while.
I vacillate between regarding the computer as the source of many modern evils and it being a useful tool for engineering use. After investing time and energy into computer knowledge and then having it rendered semi-obsolete within the span of a couple of years, I tend to avoid anything new that is computer related if at all possible. ;-)
I took the opportunity to briefly look over your web site and the features of TSE Pro. I like the idea of transparency - especially when working with crowded, multiple source windows.
Unfortunately, much of the work I do uses VBA in Access, and the editor, while much improved over Bill's _other_ Office excuses, is integral to the program.
I still do some Assembly and C++ stuff - the latest being an in-house replacement for the horrific JAVA based UPS software that came with our American Power Conversion UPS units.
I installed that stuff, groaned in absolute disbelief, and axed it immediately. After decoding the serial cable logic and peculiarities of the UPS units themselves, I donned the LED port monitors and proceeded to write my own Windoze Service, complete with a Control Panel applet, and it's been smooth sailing on our 4 servers and various workstations ever since - even through the infamous "Server Won't Boot because of the aforementioned JAVA software license" escapade of 8/16/2005. Never even noticed until the distraught complaints started rolling in from dealers all over the US. Unbelievable PITA!

I avoid _driving_ if at all possible! I go out in the daytime maybe once a week, and tend to grit my teeth the whole time. I am one of the few native born Atlanta residents left - most have fled, retiring from successful businesses and leaving the commerce to the various BORGS that seem destined to consume the world in a tsunami of mediocrity and tacky strip malls. I-85N is no man's land, 400 is not much better, and I-75N is just about to climax.
I used to work on Roswell Road in Sandy Springs and it is also quite a different place these days. If it weren't for the Rockler Store, I wouldn't go over there either. :-\
Glad to see you're still around, but just one more On-Topic question. Do you actually engage in woodworking or did a WebSearch for "Semware" call your attention to this newsgroup? IMWTK.
Well, I've rambled on for 15 minutes - long enough. FWIW,
Greg G.
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Greg G. wrote:

I know what you mean. When I worked for EREIM around Lenox (before starting SemWare), my co-workers were amazed that I was from this area, and had lived her all my life.

While I've built a (rickety) barn, a (wobbly) micro-wave stand, and some (crooked) book-shelves, it was a google groups search that brought me here. Sorry about that.
-- Sam Mitchell
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snipped-for-privacy@semware.com said:

I have a few other friends who remember when there was no I-285 or Cumberland Mall, and vaguely recall the 688 club, but not many...

That's OK. Just curious. Hang around, get out a crowbar for your wallet, and take up yet another all consuming hobby. Then your stuff won't be as rickety, wobbly, or crooked. ;-) It's really a lot of fun - mostly...
FWIW,
Greg G.
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snipped-for-privacy@semware.com wrote in

Hey, that counts!
No need to apologize. There's a pretty large subset of tech-type wood- dorkers in here.
--
Regards,

JT
Speaking only for myself....
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Greg G. wrote:

Hah! When you start remembering Univac, Ramac, IBM650s, Readix, and yes, plugboards, THEN you can feel old :-). I'm 68.
And I don't remember what I paid for my first 8" floppy drive, but I remember it put a hole in my computing budget for a while :-).
--
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Larry Blanchard said:

I abdicate - that's a bit before my time. I guess that makes you a superior old fart than I. ;-)
As a kid, I do remember buying surplus computer boards that had tiny clip mounted vacuum tubes attached - but I never knew from equipment what they originated. 1000 or so of these 12" x 9" boards would functionally fit inside a 2mm x 2mm dot these days.

As have many of my computer related purchases. I still have some of it. Wanna see? ;-)
Greg G.
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