Pentair to sell tool division: Delta, Porter-Cable

[Larry Blanchard]

Wow! Something we agree on :-).

[RB]

Looking at the ONLY posting for a s/w type on your web site I'd guess that when the qualifications include:

"Preference will be given to candidates who possess a M.Sc. or Ph.D. in Astronomy with a thesis topic in the area of Aperture Synthesis or VLBI radio astronomy."

and

"Advanced or working knowledge of the following: aperture synthesis radio astronomy, data reduction algorithms and techniques, programming for scientific applications, Fourier imaging."

make the eye of the needle pretty small. These don't describe the typical s/w engineer.

There may be a few of those folks around but they may not be interested in re-locating to central NM at the price you're willing to pay.

RB

BruceR wrote:

[markm]

They have a saying where I work, "you own your own employability". I've also seen quite a few people laid off over the years but somehow the fit survive. That is, the ones that I considered sharp land on their feed and the majority of the others, well, deserved what they got. I too am a software engineer but have to admit that it's highly overrated, any idiot can do this shit but only a few of us have a clue.

As for out sourcing, we have been sending quite a few jobs to China and India. And I have to admit the Indians work like dogs for dirt and many are sharp. The Chinese on the other hand work like dogs for dirt J They IMHO are over-educated idiots but they get paid 1/10 or less that myself and it only takes 3 or 4 of them to keep up with me, you do the math. There is no loyalty when it comes to money and we all reap what we sow. Something to think about next time you drive your Tyodie over to Walmart to buy some cheap chink shit because "you can't beat the prices". That was taken form an interview I saw of laid off Walmart workers complaining about being unemployed and jobs and goods from overseas. When asked if they still shopped there they said "well yah, you can't beat the prices".

It's all driven by the consumer; you want high wages but cheap shit. So way does anybody owe you anything and why should they be "loyal" to you?

I'm just glad that I'll probably, with luck, reach a comfortable retirement before we have completely destroyed this wonderful country and it's economy.

[Charlie Self]

Not just income tax. Try not paying your property taxes for a few years. Bingo! Auction block time, except I think smaller towns do it from the courthouse steps.

You really, really don't own a thing. You rent it from the government, whichever government entity is in charge of a particular segment.

Charlie Self "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." Mark Twain

[George]

Literacy used to be a requirement for citizenship - so the new citizen could understand the ballot.

You _DO_ have to be a citizen to vote, most places....

[Bruce]

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:33:17 -0700, Mark Jerde wrote (in message ):

We have two here in Socorro, had three at one time (programming staff of 6)

-Bruce

[p_j]

You want services for nothing? When you eat a meal at a restaurant, do you pay for it or do you say that you have paid enough money for meals lately and that you don't feel like paying? Or perhaps you want your group to not pay as much as others because you're special or powerful?

What? You bespeak talk radio twaddle.

Welfare is unearned income and you can call them subsidies, deductions, exclusions, shelters, credits or whatever you want but they are the same. Sorry if that isn't PC.

Yeah, I suppose you believe that people without homes should subsidize those with and that people without children should subsidize those with, etc., etc. ad infinitum. You can play word games, but what it comes down to is you want some one else to pay for your share.

Lo and behold, your indignation is just restated "you owe me." The fellow who made that statement ascribed it to low skilled, low education Americans. Does that accurately describe you?

[Phisherman]

These companies have long lists of requirements. I know they really want someone young, but can't say that (I'm over 40). What's so strange is that they want 5 years Oracle, 3 years C++, 3 years project managment, 4 years Java, 2 years Unix scripting--I have all of these, then they add "Must be fluent in English and Spanish." Others are looking for a minority, I guess they can pay an Afro-American female much less money, and she would be happy with it and the company will make their quota. Plus, the days are long gone when a company will help with relocation.

[Mark & Juanita]

Did I say that people should be paying *no* taxes? Your analogy is complete non-sequitor.

So you do believe that the government should decide what of your income you get to keep.

How is letting me keep income *I* have earned somehow "unearned income"? I guess it's unearned by those who aren't getting a larger share of my income.

What the !@#$ are you talking about here? Let's see, those without children do subsidize those with children, or did you think people without children don't pay property taxes that pay to educate children? You really are saying that the government and others have first dibs on the money I earn to be distributed as they please, then whatever is left is mine.

No, my indignation is with your attitude that *I* owe you. And if perchance I spend my money in some way that allows a deduction, this is somehow wrong in your eyes, somebody else is somehow "subsidizing" me. Your attitude is equivalent to the idea that because I am not earning $1M per year, this means I am subsidizing my company, rather than knowing what I am going to earn and setting my spending accordingly.

[Silvan]

All of the above? :) I wasn't being very scientific in my investigation, so I can't give hard and fast statistics.

Let's not forget that the statistics published for what people can earn in a given field are always for people who have made it through the lean initial years too. That's a real deal breaker. I was looking seriously at law enforcement until I learned that rookie cops make the same as experienced cashiers at Wal-Mart.

It's the same in a lot of fields. It's not at all unresonable to hold back the money until people have gained enough experience to do their jobs well, but the need to weather this low income period makes any career change a difficult prospect. The only way to circumvent it is to have experience enough to step in at a higher wage from the outset, which is a pretty nasty catch 22.

This is one reason why I view income as a trap. I could do *much* better than $15 an hour in trucking already, but I don't like my trade very much, and I don't want to limit my options by raising my income too high.

What's that? "Limit your options by raising your income too high? Are you insane?" No, not at all. I have proven that the more I make, the more ways I find to obligate myself to maintaining that level of income. If changing careers and maintaining $15 an hour is difficult (virtually impossible, I'm afraid), it would be that much more difficult to maintain $20 or $30.

For that matter, when I started in *this* business, I was earning *far* less than I could afford to live on today. At the time, it was a step up. Today, it would be an enormous step down.

Changing careers is a nasty business. The only bright spot in all of this is that my current industry is a very safe place to be. Like you said to someone else, one has to find something to do which people are willing to pay for. Trucking is that. I have job security in spades, shovels and buckets.

Yes it does, but that's for each person to decide. I know nomads who earn a bazillion dollars a year, and have a fleet of Jaguars. If that's what they want, more power to them. Personally, I put more stock in being around to see all the landscape trees I planted grow to maturity.

I would also add "letting my kids stay with their friends" but that's something I can't control. We are still here, but all of their friends have been the children of nomads. I've had to watch my daughter lose her best friend three times now, and she's only in first grade. My son just doesn't *have* friends anymore, since nobody can be expected to be here six months from now. I can hardly blame him, really, but it's a sad thing to see.

Oh, and walnut is the world's most perfect wood. :)

[Silvan]

That's a sore point with me as a language major. I have the "fluent in English and Spanish" down, but never any of the rest of the requirements for anything.

I could pick apples or work in a greenhouse for minimum wage. That's what my degree is worth to me.

Oh, well, and I can watch "El Mariachi" with the subtitles off. That was worth $20,000.

[CW]

[Mark]

Five years ago the counselors would have said IT and Web design was the growth and high paying field of the next century and would have steered the new student to the field.

Today these students are graduating. You know what their finding.

This is the reason I went to PIA and got the aviation degree and license. Not to necessarily work on aircraft but to be employable. Someone always needs someone to build or maintain something. An employer is hard pressed to NOT look at me for a position.

[Silvan]

Yeah, I do think there should be a lot more emphasis on "what are you going to do after you graduate?"

I get some blame too though. I could have done better homework. I didn't really start to think about what I was going to do to earn money in a serious way until my fiancée's EPT turned purple, or blue, or whatever color it was.

I did have a vague plan. I was going to go to grad school and become "a professor or something."

Oh well. At least my kids can learn from my mistakes. My parents didn't put a lot of emphasis on my major because they both got degrees in psychology and wound up eventually getting really decent, completely unrelated jobs "because we have college degrees."

The problem is that just doesn't work anymore. Bill the homeless guy has three PhDs these days.

[RJ]

Yeah, software is free.

[Mark & Juanita]

... snip

... snip

Just as a thought, have you thought about raising your income, but living on what you are currently making? By stashing away the extra for some time, you could afford to have some "down time" in the future to pay your dues in a new job. Make it something that is transparent to you, as in through payroll deduction so you don't see the extra money, only the increase in some investment account.

[Mark & Juanita]

... and at least when I was going through college in the late '70s, early 80s, the professors in those fields would tell the class that their goal should be the "joy of learning" or "to become a well-rounded and educated individual". Those of us in the engineering curriculum would simply nod, fulfill the course requirements, and move on, somehow knowing that there should have been more than a little bit of motivation to find something that would provide value for someone in the future as well.

[Doug Winterburn]

Had a boss many years ago that told me the same thing - "I want you putting away 10% of your gross for the future - never to be tapped until you retire". I said "I can't afford it". He said, "Her's a 3 % raise, start there and add to it with every other raise and you'll be at 10% in a few years". I did and it worked. Been preaching to the Chilun the same message and they're listening and doing.

-Doug

[Joe Willmann]

Silvan wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I was listening to the radio a couple of days ago. There was a woman talking to an advise guy. She had financial problems and was in real debt. She owed about $35,000. Something like this - 20K for student loans, 7K for automobile and the rest on credit cards.

So he asked her what she did. She is a waitress in a restraunt. Something like TGI Fridays or such.

He asked about her student status. She graduated two years ealier with a BA in performing arts!

You know, I understand the desire to go to school and study something "fun". But if you can't make a living at it, it isn't a carear it is a hobby. You have to pay for hobbies as you go.

Borrowing 20K to get an education in performing arts should be against the law. Her parents aught to sue the school, the proffesors and the bank that loaned her the money.

Actually she aught to sue her parrents for letting her do such a stupid thing.

[CW]

Not always. Most of my working life I have made a pretty good living off my hobbies. I have more unusual hobbies though. Machine work, drafting, electronics.

I wouldn't go that far but I do think the counselor should have laid out the facts about future employment in that field. I'm sure they didn't do that. They are more concerned with filling classes than setting someone up to succeed. Before someone jumps in and says it was her problem, she should have known, there is a lot of difference in expecting someone to do something for you and paying someone to do something for you. Your average college kid doesn't know squat about the world. The counselor should have some knowledge of market trends.