Pentair to sell tool division: Delta, Porter-Cable

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Phisherman wrote:

That's a sore point with me as a language major. I have the "fluent in English and Spanish" down, but never any of the rest of the requirements for anything.
I could pick apples or work in a greenhouse for minimum wage. That's what my degree is worth to me.
Oh, well, and I can watch "El Mariachi" with the subtitles off. That was worth $20,000.
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Your not alone, Silvan. A friend of mine has a masters in anthropology. He drives a truck for living. College counselors should tell their students what their job prospects are going to be in a particular field. Instead, they fill classes and keep teachers working.

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CW wrote:

Five years ago the counselors would have said IT and Web design was the growth and high paying field of the next century and would have steered the new student to the field.
Today these students are graduating. You know what their finding.
This is the reason I went to PIA and got the aviation degree and license. Not to necessarily work on aircraft but to be employable. Someone always needs someone to build or maintain something. An employer is hard pressed to NOT look at me for a position.
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CW wrote:

Yeah, I do think there should be a lot more emphasis on "what are you going to do after you graduate?"
I get some blame too though. I could have done better homework. I didn't really start to think about what I was going to do to earn money in a serious way until my fiancιe's EPT turned purple, or blue, or whatever color it was.
I did have a vague plan. I was going to go to grad school and become "a professor or something."
Oh well. At least my kids can learn from my mistakes. My parents didn't put a lot of emphasis on my major because they both got degrees in psychology and wound up eventually getting really decent, completely unrelated jobs "because we have college degrees."
The problem is that just doesn't work anymore. Bill the homeless guy has three PhDs these days.
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I was listening to the radio a couple of days ago. There was a woman talking to an advise guy. She had financial problems and was in real debt. She owed about $35,000. Something like this - 20K for student loans, 7K for automobile and the rest on credit cards.
So he asked her what she did. She is a waitress in a restraunt. Something like TGI Fridays or such.
He asked about her student status. She graduated two years ealier with a BA in performing arts!
You know, I understand the desire to go to school and study something "fun". But if you can't make a living at it, it isn't a carear it is a hobby. You have to pay for hobbies as you go.
Borrowing 20K to get an education in performing arts should be against the law. Her parents aught to sue the school, the proffesors and the bank that loaned her the money.
Actually she aught to sue her parrents for letting her do such a stupid thing.
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Not always. Most of my working life I have made a pretty good living off my hobbies. I have more unusual hobbies though. Machine work, drafting, electronics.

I wouldn't go that far but I do think the counselor should have laid out the facts about future employment in that field. I'm sure they didn't do that. They are more concerned with filling classes than setting someone up to succeed. Before someone jumps in and says it was her problem, she should have known, there is a lot of difference in expecting someone to do something for you and paying someone to do something for you. Your average college kid doesn't know squat about the world. The counselor should have some knowledge of market trends.

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culture. If we do something wrong/stupid/dangerous and get hut we want to turn around and sue someone.
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I knew what you meant. I should have indicated that.
joking about the sueing part. It is just part of our

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University is rarely about learning a career, college is about learning a career/trade. University is about learning how to think and be diverse. It is generally irrelevant what you study unless you specialize, such as engineering. Even then it's no sure fire way to end up working in the chosen career field. Doctors, lawyers, most business professionals all start with ANY undergraduate degree... even performing arts. After all, what better way to start a career where you can absolutely say you know how to present in front of a crowd with confidence. Sales anyone ? Once you have your undergraduate degree, you have just begun. Then you either embark on completing the process with a professional designation.... PEng, DR, Lawyer, CA,etc... or you work hard to get an entry level job with career prospects. The issue is the false sense that just because you have an undergraduate degree you some how rate an immediate professional well paying job.
The failing I see here is you friend with a degree in anthropology obviously decided he was not interested in it or didn't want to put any effort in it, believing he had apparently paid his dues and was therefore due a great career. Driving a truck is choice made either because he realized that's what he wants in life for one reason or another or it was easier than anthropology which obviously would have meant other difficult choices. Which after 6 years in higher education one would think would have been realized without having to defer to a counselor who most likely has less education or at most equivalent.
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Roger McIlmoyle wrote:

I don't dispute that that is the case now. It hasn't always been that way, however. I know a great many folks from my parents' generation who made out quite well with nothing more than an undergraduate degree in basket weaving.
Dad for instance. He makes substantially more than SWMBO and I put together, all because he took one single class in COBOL in the early '70s.
Times have changed.
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snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net says...

... and at least when I was going through college in the late '70s, early 80s, the professors in those fields would tell the class that their goal should be the "joy of learning" or "to become a well-rounded and educated individual". Those of us in the engineering curriculum would simply nod, fulfill the course requirements, and move on, somehow knowing that there should have been more than a little bit of motivation to find something that would provide value for someone in the future as well.

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Mark & Juanita wrote:

That's the crime, at one time higher education was about learning. Now colleges and universities are about getting jobs.
When the focus shifted one result was a major increase in graduates thinking they learned everything they needed to learn in school. Usually it takes someone with a little formal power, such as an employer, to break this thinking. Unfortunately it's never completely broken. Try telling an engineer something contrary to their book learning that you've learned from experience and personal observation and unless you happen to hold an advanced degree they don't want to believe you.
Another result was the teaching of the test and how to puke answers instead of thinking. This is becoming rampant.
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REM_TO snipped-for-privacy@neo.rr.com says...

... and what were the people who left college after "the learning" supposed to do? There needs to be a balance of learning for learning's sake as well as learning for the purpose of providing the student a future beyond college.

... in most cases, the good engineers will listen to experience. OTOH, I have seen people "with experience" trying to tell engineers how things should be, the problem is that those "experienced" people did not see the big picture, in many cases, their experienced opinion would work in a single, isolated instance, but the problem being solved required a solution that could maintain operability in even the 3 to 5 sigma operating conditions.

When I was in engineering school, the arts & sciences classes were those that "taught the test" (in a number of instances, in other instances they at least told you where the answers were to be found. Most of the engineering tests I took were tests where the professor felt that the test itself should be a "learning experience" That typically meant that whatever you learned during the coursework leading up to the test, and all of the homework problems you had worked were useless, the test was going to be about something completely different.
The other "fun" classes were those where it seemed that the pre- requisite for the course was a full and complete working knowledge of all the material to be covered in the class.

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There's always been a question about studying for degrees in non- professional fields. I once had a young neighbor who was thinking about giving up on the Army as a career and asked me what he might be able to do with his history degree. I wasn't able to suggest any single thing for him. Even my engineering degree hasn't proven to be worth much once I got past 50.
At least the young ladies have motherhood and home management as low-cost alternative careers. [Ducking for cover if any such should read this!]
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They have a saying where I work, "you own your own employability". I've also seen quite a few people laid off over the years but somehow the fit survive. That is, the ones that I considered sharp land on their feed and the majority of the others, well, deserved what they got. I too am a software engineer but have to admit that it's highly overrated, any idiot can do this shit but only a few of us have a clue.
As for out sourcing, we have been sending quite a few jobs to China and India. And I have to admit the Indians work like dogs for dirt and many are sharp. The Chinese on the other hand work like dogs for dirt J They IMHO are over-educated idiots but they get paid 1/10 or less that myself and it only takes 3 or 4 of them to keep up with me, you do the math. There is no loyalty when it comes to money and we all reap what we sow. Something to think about next time you drive your Tyodie over to Walmart to buy some cheap chink shit because "you can't beat the prices". That was taken form an interview I saw of laid off Walmart workers complaining about being unemployed and jobs and goods from overseas. When asked if they still shopped there they said "well yah, you can't beat the prices".
It's all driven by the consumer; you want high wages but cheap shit. So way does anybody owe you anything and why should they be "loyal" to you?
I'm just glad that I'll probably, with luck, reach a comfortable retirement before we have completely destroyed this wonderful country and it's economy.

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On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:16:13 GMT, "markm"

Unfortunately, any idiot can't do this shit, but thinks he can. And, if he's a good BSer, the management don't usually know the difference. Course, I'm sure there are places where this isn't true, but...

Those Toyotas are some of the best, most reliable cars made and aren't exactly the caliber of what I'd guess you'd find at WallyWorld. If the 'muricans back then realized they had to make a decent product, those durn furriners wouldn't have taken their market away from them. You'll note full size trucks are on the hit list next. Shame this country can't be at the top of the auto quality list.
Renata

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Well, your probably right, bout the toy cars. Just one of my pet peaves, Abu in his Crayola is second only to Sally in her Stupidrue and Sherie in her Subdivision. Get the furk out of my way, beemerboy coming through.

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p snipped-for-privacy@postzzzmark.net says...

This attitude that somehow deductions, i.e. allowing people to keep a little more of the money *they* have earned somehow equates to welfare, the receipt of *other* peoples' money is more than a bit disturbing and quite irritating. It bespeaks an attitude that the money is the government's first, and mine second. It indicates that I should be grateful for what the government lets me take home after it (the government) has decided how much of my time is owed it first.
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Mark & Juanita writes:

Not just income tax. Try not paying your property taxes for a few years. Bingo! Auction block time, except I think smaller towns do it from the courthouse steps.
You really, really don't own a thing. You rent it from the government, whichever government entity is in charge of a particular segment.
Charlie Self "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." Mark Twain
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
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You want services for nothing? When you eat a meal at a restaurant, do you pay for it or do you say that you have paid enough money for meals lately and that you don't feel like paying? Or perhaps you want your group to not pay as much as others because you're special or powerful?

What? You bespeak talk radio twaddle.
Welfare is unearned income and you can call them subsidies, deductions, exclusions, shelters, credits or whatever you want but they are the same. Sorry if that isn't PC.

Yeah, I suppose you believe that people without homes should subsidize those with and that people without children should subsidize those with, etc., etc. ad infinitum. You can play word games, but what it comes down to is you want some one else to pay for your share.
Lo and behold, your indignation is just restated "you owe me." The fellow who made that statement ascribed it to low skilled, low education Americans. Does that accurately describe you?
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