Pentair to sell tool division: Delta, Porter-Cable

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So obviously you shoukd just give up and suck in a little welfare because this mean old businessman isn't willing to pay $20 an hour for $5 an hour work. And we wonder why immigrants, legal or illegal, are sought after. That attitude - more than the low wage - is the reason. "you owe me" seems to be the low skilled low educated american's mantra.
Dave Hall
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Uh, the tax code is replete with welfare programs that require higher levels of income to qualify.
Even in the middle it is a virtual non-stop "you owe me."
I'm sure if this off topic discussion went on and you were to reveal your deductions and examined the services you received, your argument would be that they were owed to you.
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I'm an experienced software developer, now unemployed. Bush says I should change jobs, but software is what I know and have been doing for 30 years. I could go back to college, but by that time I'll have 8 more years to work until retirement. Right now, I have no insurance and no plans to buy anything. I can't blame the government for my situation, but I hate Bush telling me the solution is "to change professions." I won't change my work, but I will change my vote!
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Phisherman wrote:

Hmm. Ok, but that doesn't sound like much of a plan. I developed software for over 40 years (see http://www.iedu.com/mrd/mrd_self.html and http://www.iedu.com/mrd/philips.txt for an addendum) and opted not to compete with Indian labor rates. We both need to do /something/ productive with our lives!
I've always loved woodworking; and I've had an increasing interest in alternative energy technologies since the early 70's so I decided to produce solar heating panels (browse around at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto ) and fill in with contract CNC work for local cabinet shops (who don't have terribly strong software/computer skills) to keep my navel separated from my backbone. I don't know if the plan is a good one or not - but I think it'll work better than watching my saving be eaten up by the inflation that the Bush administration set us all up to experience over the next ten years.
--
Morris Dovey
West Des Moines, Iowa USA
  Click to see the full signature.
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While I was a pretty much in the same boat as you. I chose to retire and get out while the getting out was good back in 1995. I was in the Automotive profession for 22 years. I has always been said that the Automotive profession is a young mans profession. I always thought you needed to be young to be able to put up with the problems that arise in the Automotive industry. Having been a service sales manager at a large GM dealership, making excuses for the quality problems of the American built car to your customer makes you old quick. I finally realized that a young mans profession is one that a young man with out a family or obligations can do pretty good in. Fortunately I worked the automotive system and got my rewards. I chose to retire not having to work any more at 40. 2 years later I started my own business and while my profits are there every year, they come no where near what I was making before retiring. While you hate Bush for telling you that the solution is to change professions, I did not have to wait for him to tell me this. I saw the writing on the wall.
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but I hate Bush telling me the solution is "to change professions."
Because you quoted that remark, can you lead me to where I can find where or when he said that?
I've never heard and I'd like to know for sure.

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Well I am an unemployeed software engineer. Two years since I was laid off. I have had 9 weeks of work during that time. Luckily my wife is well employeed.
Two years ago I made $110K. I would gladly work for half today. I woul;d change my vote to if I thought it would make a difference. Remember it was Clinton that signed NAFTA.
It isn't like I make great buggy whips. There is still a demand for what I do. Unfortunately I think it is the drive for quarterly profits that is the biggest cause of the problem. The thing with outsourcing is it is a short sighted solution. Just like chasing quartly profit. The place I used to work was a high tech company that makes electronics. The ideas that turn into products come from people in the company. Most of them come from the engineers, not marketing. What happens when all of the engineering is outsourced? How thinks up, "if this works and I make this change then we can sell this to another market"? Nobody. That's who.
The company I used to work for was divided up something like this. 10% Admin (like secretaries, book keepers, marketing, support etc.) 10% Management 40% Manufacturing 40% Engineering
How does it look today? 2% Manufacturing 30% Engineering 20% Management 48% Admin
How do the actual numbers look? Before 2000 engineers, 2000 Manufacturing, 500 Admin and 500 Management for a total of 5000 people.
Now it has downsized by about 20% for a total of 4000 of which 80 are manufacturing, 1200 engineers, 800 Managers and 1920 admin and support. The company grew the marketing, and sales while cutting engineering and manufacturing. Then naturally because the more work is out sourced they need more managers to handle the out sourced engineering.
The numbers are estimates.
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So therefore it is YOUR choice to be unemployed at your profession that to change careers. WTF does Bush have to do with it all?
My first choices for a profession were: 1) Pope 2) Queen of England. Both jobs were filled so I became a manger instead. Do you think I should have waited for an opening? You can't make much money selling things people just don't want or need no matter how good we think they are. Basic fact of capitalism.
Sorry, but when I hear people bitch that "I want to be a (fill in chose profession) but it does not pay enough to make a living." I don't fee a tiny bit sorry for them. Do something people are willing to pay for. Ed
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Ed Pawlowski writes:

Didja bring your dog with you?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
My first choices: I wanted to be the Saint; I wanted to be retired.
Never was ANY kind of saint and I'm of retirement age and wouldn't retire even if I could affod it.
Charlie Self "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way." Mark Twain http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
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That's it, make the world change!
How dare they try to tell you what to do - don't they know it's your job to tell them?

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Gee, We have been hell bent on trying to hire _any_ software engineers here for the past few years. Noone wants to work so we end up filling the positions with foreigners with visas.
-Bruce
http://www.nrao.edu

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So, that want ad you wrote in fine print on the bathroom wall didn't bring any applicants, right? Or maybe it was that $10.00 per day pay rate.

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On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:12:01 -0700, CW wrote

Heh! :^)
Most of the resumes we get from people who consider themselves "programmers" say either they can "program" Windows or can "program" the internet....
-Bruce
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>can "program" the internet....

You actually got a resume from Al Gore?
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High Speed Computing Act.
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BruceR wrote:

Where is "here"? Charlottesville VA, Green Bank WV, Socorro NM, Tucson AZ, or somewhere else?
-- Mark
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On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:33:17 -0700, Mark Jerde wrote

We have two here in Socorro, had three at one time (programming staff of 6) -Bruce
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Those job descriptions (2) look a lot more like career astronomers than computer programmers to me... Can't say as that indicates a general indication of a shortage of computer programmers.
"Candidates must possess knowledge of experimental astronomy, especially interferometry, or sufficient math and physics to quickly learn, at a detailed level, the instrumental aspects of the EVLA radio telescope..."
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Looking at the ONLY posting for a s/w type on your web site I'd guess that when the qualifications include:
"Preference will be given to candidates who possess a M.Sc. or Ph.D. in Astronomy with a thesis topic in the area of Aperture Synthesis or VLBI radio astronomy."
and
"Advanced or working knowledge of the following: aperture synthesis radio astronomy, data reduction algorithms and techniques, programming for scientific applications, Fourier imaging."
make the eye of the needle pretty small. These don't describe the typical s/w engineer.
There may be a few of those folks around but they may not be interested in re-locating to central NM at the price you're willing to pay.
RB
BruceR wrote:

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These companies have long lists of requirements. I know they really want someone young, but can't say that (I'm over 40). What's so strange is that they want 5 years Oracle, 3 years C++, 3 years project managment, 4 years Java, 2 years Unix scripting--I have all of these, then they add "Must be fluent in English and Spanish." Others are looking for a minority, I guess they can pay an Afro-American female much less money, and she would be happy with it and the company will make their quota. Plus, the days are long gone when a company will help with relocation.
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