Pentair to sell tool division: Delta, Porter-Cable

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hell, if they're sending handsaws to japan to be sharpened,(apparently 'cause us 'murricanz is too dumb to do it) sending your car to singapore for a tune up can't be far off.
    Bridger
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Yes, sir, we can get your car tuned up in India for only $5. The bad news is that shipping will be $600 and your car will be gone for five weeks.
I doubt anyone is sending a handsaw to Japan for sharpening to save money. Wages there are as just as high as here. The Japanese can probably do a better job and shipping a hand saw is pretty darn cheap compared to a car.
Brian Ekfert
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yeah, but for the tune up all we have to ship are the engine and brakes. the rest gets parked in a container somewhere....
<G>
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Brian:
In the wonderful world of corporate greed, some mba asshole accountant type will figure out it is cheaper to fly some guy over from India to fix your car or truck. The first step in the right direction is one term limits for congress and outlawing special interest groups from lobbying.
Mike
(SteveC1280) writes:

We all need to become auto or truck mechanics. They can't exactly send a

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Brian Elfert wrote:

I must be heading in the right direction then. I am an auto AND truck mechanic!
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If Bush REALLY wanted to help the economy, he would ONLY give us a tax cut when we submit PROOF that we bought that much in American Made products. Not "assembled" but MADE in the USA. That would help. I have been looking for a job for almost a year. I am a college graduate and am having to compete with people who have written grants and published for $22,000 a year jobs. When they show up (rarely). That's a "good" economy? Of course, this is Arkansas.
On 04 Feb 2004 14:41:04 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comremove (SteveC1280) wrote:

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If Bush doesn't care about keeping jobs in America, why is he opening up the gates so foreigners can take the jobs we have left?
(SteveC1280)

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the
What jobs? Picking crops, mowing lawns that most of us here don't want to do?
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wrote:

hate to burst your bubble here BUT they are and have been over the past few years taking jobs from plummers, electritions, framers, trim people, hardware installers, firemen, policemen, tile setters, flooring installers, ect. ect. ect..........all forms of construction are being performed by illegals and our manufacturing and textile jobs are being moved overseas because of our gov. doing away with tariffs and greedy execs seeing larger profit margins for themselves. oh BTW lets not forget all the HIGH TECK jobs leaving for dirt cheep wages too! sorry but they aint just mowing lawns and picking crops anymore. skeez
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says...

Around here, about half of the building framers appear to be from south of the border. On the bright side, we have a steady supply of taco trucks for a tasty lunch.
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to
Wes, I agree with your facts about illegals having babies and costing us money. There are, however, jobs that are low paying and a lot of people just won't do them today. I can assure you also, that I am not the person with all the answers to correct this.
I manage a small company with 20 employees. We need 35 employees. What we need are people to do a low skilled job with a correspondingly low pay. It is above minimum wage, it offers holidays, vacation, health insurance, 401k. Qualifications are to be able to look at parts and know a good one from a bad one (we'll show you how), be able to write the date and shift, and show up pretty much every day. We are located in a small town (pop. 12,000) in New England, surrounded by other small towns.
I can't find people. We must use a temp labor service to bring people from out of the area. They are legal immigrants or aliens (the agency says so), some speak English, but that is not required. They work for less than $9 an hour. The locals are either not interested in these jobs, or they are not qualified. I don't hire high school dropouts because most are bozos that don't show up. Or just don't give a damn about what they are doing. (a whole other topics of discussion)
Can we pay more? Subject to debate I guess, but more money is not getting us any better applicants. We are in a very competitive business and can't raise prices to pay for more labor. We can't move to another cheaper area because the freight cost of the product will far exceed any savings. Our business region is limited to about 250 miles.
Many of the applicants I get want to drive a fork lift truck and get paid $15/hr. Others come from the closed down GM plant that paid $20+ per hour.
Without the recent immigrants, we could not run our business. Some of these people do not speak English but communicate very well. They are not stupid, they work and give an honest days work. We treat them the same as our full time employees. Same breaks, same free coffee, they are invited to our summer picnic, etc. Our intention is to have them as workers at a fair wage, not to exploit them. The temp agency helps them with transportation. We have been able to hire a couple as full time employees, some are not interested.
Ed
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Gee, you can't find people who want to work for near poverty level wages? You don't say what you pay, but you think $15/hour is too high, so your wages can't be very much.
I know everyone can't work for $20 to $30 an hour, but around $10 an hour is very much on the low end for a full time job. Who needs a 401k when they can't afford to put anything into it?
Brian Elfert
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writes:> Gee, you can't find people who want to work for near poverty level wages?

Yes, he did say what he paid. "Less than $9 dollars an hour".
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OK, the wages are not $20 an hour, but the skill level needed is a 1 on a scale of 1 to 10. You need more skill and training to work stocking shelves at a grocery store or flipping burgers. What is that worth on the open market?
As for not putting anything in the 401k, I do know for a fact that one of these guys has about $100,000 in value in his. Not bad for a HS grad in his 20's with little skills.
If we paid $15 or $20 for the work, a tradesman or carpenter would be getting paid $80 + benefits or so to be in scale. If we paid that rate, we'd also be out of business. We are very much in line with our competition in the region. Our skilled workers get a higher rate, again, competitive with the best around.
You have to put everything in perspective. There are many companies that pay less for higher work demand. This is far from "sweat shop" conditions. We sometimes hire people that come here because it is a big increase from their minimum wage job and think they are doing well. They are for their abilities. Ed
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This guy must have played the market very well or is living on virtually nothing if he has put away $100,000 working at $9/hr. He is probably the exception and not the norm for $9/hr workers.

I'm sure the competition is paying the same. You were complaining you can't find workers. Paying $9 a hour probably explains most of it right there.
It would be extremely difficult to raise a family on $9 an hour, no matter how low the cost of living.
Brian Elfert
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Maybe, but he is if fact worth that much. Some of the money comes from profit sharing and some comes from the 50% matching funds.

It is a part ofit, but I have a difficult time getting workers at higher wages at times. Put an ad in the paper and get two respones. Employment in this area is not too bad overall. People with skills are able to use them. Sure, they may make $15, $20 or $30 an h our, but they h ave the skills and knowledge to earn it. I'm not trying to hire bankers or machinist to do unskilled jobs. My point was that there is a need for people to fill those spots. The locals are over qualified. Ed

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Brian Elfert writes:

Uh, you mean it's not up to the worker to learn more, work harder, get more money. He should just walk in and get top salary with no experience, no skills?
This is an ENTRY level job, for chrissakes. You're not supposed to make enough to raise a family with an entry level job when your entry level includes neither experience nor education.
Charlie Self "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way." Mark Twain http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) writes:

How much skill or education does it really take to work on an auto assembly line and they get paid a lot more than $9/hr.
The original poster was wondering why he couldn't find workers for $9/hr. Not being able to support a family on $9/hr is one reason he can't find workers.
I worked at the Minnesota State Fair cutting grass for $4 or $5 an hour back in the late 80s/early 90s. Most of the workers were lazy bums and management complained all the time about the lousy workers. What did they expect when they paid bottom dollar? I could have made somewhat more elsewhere, but the hours at the fair were great and I was in high school/college.
Brian Elfert
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(Charlie Self) writes:

Let me see. The guy has 35 employees making $9.00. If he raises his prices so that he can pay them more then we cheap Americans won't buy his product so he goes out of buisness. Then there are 35 people on unemployement.
Hmmmmmm, sounds like a good trade to me.
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The bums would be bums at 10X that wage. It is more than just money.
You can't support a family for that wage, but that does not mean people are not happy earning it. Many of our workers are single, but some have second household incomes. One fellow is a computer programmer and supervisor, but likes to work for us to make an few extra $ to afford his BMW. It is a job with no stress, no thinking.
Another single guy does not speak more than a dozen words of English. He makes enough to buy a six pack, once a week or so he buys some poontang, goes to the casino, and then takes a few days off to recuperate. Working for an agency he can get away with calling his own hours, not so with most employers.
Another just works to get out of the house and away from her husband. Still another makes a few bucks to spoil the grand kids.
You may be surprised, but there are many people that have little ambition, are happy with almost nothing, don't want to have responsibility. We offered one of the Temps a full time job as a supervisor, good pay (double to start) and loads of benefits. It scared him off and we did not see him for two weeks.
Another Temp just told me today that he is leaving after this week to go back to this old $15/hour job that he was laid off from some months ago. Good for him. He thanked us for letting him work for us.
Others are working here because they can study for college exams if they are keeping up with the packing. They won't be here forever, I hope.
Brian, I have no idea what you do for a living, but you should look around more and see the different cultures that abound in this country. I'm sure you are earning much more that we pay our packers, but you also have a better education, more ambition, better skills, and probably an upbringing in the USA.
I thought long and hard about these people and wondered if we are exploiting them. No. we are not. We are giving them the opportunity to earn money instead of being a burden on the welfare systems, We give them exposure to assist in learning a different way of life, ability to try to speak English, and learn customs of a new country. They are in no way second class workers. Many go on to bigger and better and we wish them well. We get a real bum once in a while, but we get many dedicated and responsible people and we treat them well. Two that I'm aware of turned down a 50 increase at another company because they'd rather work for us. That is a bit difference at their wage level.
There is more, much more, to life that how much you earn. Ed snipped-for-privacy@snet.net http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
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