Paslode Nail Guns - China

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Well, just to let you guys know, I have been made aware of a very unfortunate piece of information. Paslode has decided to have their major internal components for the cordless nail gun group, to be manufactured and machined in China. This may not sound like much, but this amounts to 95 % of the internal workings of the gun. This will include all framers as well as trimmers. This will more than likely lead to more failures in the field, and God knows when we pay as much for these tools as we do, we expect them to work ! Oh well, another quality tool down the crapper !!!
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<A Concerned Woodworker> wrote in message

Yeah, just like that "made in Japan" crap....
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<A Concerned Woodworker> wrote in message

If you think made in China means poor quality, you are sadly mistaken. The reason more is going to China is because the Chinese are willing to build the products for the what they are really worth. There really is no reason in the world that a nail gun should cost $300, other than to pay a high salary. I have to say, high union labor is running more jobs off to over seas manufacturers. It aint rocket science to build a nail gun and yet the workers here think that they should be paid rocket science wages.
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snipped-for-privacy@swbell.net says...

Yeah, and management deserves every dime they get. Those damn workers are just killing the whole country.
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says...> Yeah, and management deserves every dime they get. Those damn workers

Well I was not going to go that far but, you said it for me. LOL
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Leon wrote:

You are a tool if you think that management is worth more than the hands that build the tools!
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USENET READER wrote:

Well, let's see. What do those hands do when the parts don't arrive? What do they do when the finished product is standing in a pile at the end of the assembly line? What do they do when one of the machines on the line goes down? Which one of them sends out the bills to the customers?
Sorry, the Russians thought it was that simple and shot all the managers. They still haven't recovered.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
  Click to see the full signature.
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Leon wrote: ...

While there's a kernel of truth in the argument that some union labor may be overpriced, there's the problem that in the other country 10% of the wage here is sufficient to live quite well, whereas here it wouldn't be sufficient even if the individual economized to the extreme...
So, as in any <real> issue, the problems are much more complex than such simplistic descriptions or solutions...
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One area that has not been discussed is the wholesale piracy of intellectual property by the Chinese - this ranges from hi-tech to low tech. When you do not have to do R&D to develop an item your production cost is lower. . .
Also there was an article in Business Week a couple of months ago about counterfeit products - it was scary as counterfeits may not be made to the same spec and could cause injury or loss of life.
Products made in China can be high quality but my experience is that is generally not the rule - I do have a Canon copier made in China that is of the same quality of one made in Japan.
I was surprised recent on a visit to Lowes to see an Ingersol-Rand ratchet (made in China) sitting next to a Campbell Hausfield (made in Taiwan). The IR was about 2.5X the price of the CH and appeared to be of equal quality - what seems to be happening is that many companies are going to China and the execs apologize for losing local jobs as they line their own pockets. . .
BillyB
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I got back from a visit to China over the Christams holidays and saw a couple things that speak to the comments below. As to the cost of living - yep, you can live cheap in China. There were about 15 of us at 2 tables in a VERY GOOD restaurant in Guanzhou. All together over 20 dishes and when we were finished there was a good deal of food left over. Cost? - less that $100.00. Also in Guanzhou saw some USB key chain storage units. 128 MB for about $12.00. You can retire in relative comfort for about $200/month there although you will be giving up a few things that most probably see as essential here.
At the same time while crossing a bridge to head home, saw maybe a dozen people selling pirated software. Most was of music and groups I never heard of.

intellectual
do
quality -

the
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Kevin wrote:

Like quality health care, democracy, freedom of speech, etc. Can't wait to see how fast Bush starts to force retirees to move to China to make their SOcial Security checks go further - wait until you live next to a chicken slaughter house and come down with SARS.

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snipped-for-privacy@swbell.net says...

Exactly correct. But lets not limit our thinking and bias towards workers. Why does American management think they are "better" than their Chinese counterparts and therefore should not be outsourced along with the workers?
I suspect its a simple answer of: Well, but ah....because I'm management and without me running the show here in the US the whole company might as well be in China.......oh ah, wait a minute.... I ah meant to say....
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So, you pay yourself what? About $6.00 per hour?

the
another
I
was
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Sometimes. Yes.
Seldom more than $25.
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You should be leading by example. The average Chinese worker makes about 18 cents an hour. If you're charging more than 20 cents, you are part of the problem. I said $6.00 because that is about average minimum wage (try to live on it).

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Well I will agree that I am part of the problem.
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Evidently, you have very little experience with Chinese-made tools - or else you have *no* experience with anything *else* to provide a basis for comparison.

What a load of utter nonsense. The reason more production is going to China is that more and more manufacturers are trying to get their products made at the lowest possible cost without regard for quality. The cost of doing business in China is very low for at least two reasons: 1) very low cost of labor - and for a good reason, I might add - and 2) little or no environmental regulation.

More nonsense. It pays for *skilled* labor. It pays for high-quality steel. (How many times have you twisted the head off of a Chinese-made screw?) It pays for a clean environment. (Of course it costs less to manufacture products in a country that allows the factory to just dump whatever crap they want to, wherever they want to, than in a country that requires factories to keep their surroundings clean.)
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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I agree about the lower cost due to lack of regulation and cheaper labor. While a lot of stuff coming from China is crap, they are also very capable of turning out high quality goods also. We use some products made in Korea and China that are superior than what we can get in the US. The days of making generalizations that China = crap are pretty much gone.
Right now a cargo plane from Korea is bringing in some tooling we ordered. (better quality at half the price in a third the time) One of the US companies we requested information from has not even provided a quote yet. One day they will be out of business and blame others for their plight.
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Exactly. Now that our country has used most of its cheap natural resources it has to compete with the rest of the world. Blaming others countries for doing a job at a reasonable price is not going to fix our problems. Or we could tax the living day lights out of imported products like imported cars. I learned that the 90 Acura that my wife and I bought in 1989 would have been 30% cheaper with out the import tax added.
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wrote in message

Among my travels I have visited every province in China, and speak Mandarin and Cantonese. I had started to think I was the only one who recognized that China produces low end AND high end products. The product specs define what components are used, and a skilled worker in a Chinese production facility is almost certainly a more skilled and experienced worker than the counterpart in a U.S. plant, but probably also better educated, as well. You only have to go into some of the U.S. factories -- especially in the SE U.S., to realize how little education or work ethic "our" workers have.
Side thoughts -- (a) if Chinese tools are so bad, how is it that Chinese wood products -- especially wood carved products -- or of such exceptional quality?
(b) Perhaps it's a lack of government (e.g., OSHA) interference. The Heritage Foundation a few years ago found that in terms of economic freedom, a Chinese special administration area placed first (MOST free!) in the world. Singapore was second. The U.S. placed fourth.
(c) Did you know that the Chinese refrigerator producer, Haier -- a world-class producer -- has a plant in South Carolina so that it can better handle the U.S. market? Are Haier refrigerators now a U.S. or a Chinese product?
(d) The problem is multi-faceted -- an under-educated U.S. workforce which lacks a world-class work ethic, an education system that produces these unmotivated and unready graduates, a standard of management that does not motivate or make up the shortfalls of the educational system, and a political system that can't (or won't) address these problems.
Regards --
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