Pantograph?

I'm trying to make a custom pistol grip and wondered if anyone thinks the Craftsman Router Pantograph would do that? I have a baked clay model to go from. If Craftsman won't work, does anyone have any other suggestions?
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--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Aug 26, 3:40 pm, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
wondered if anyone thinks

Hunted around and finally found them. Dupli-Carver (http:// www.terrco.com/woodcarvers.php) But that's a bunch of money for just occasional use. One suggestion somewhere got me started Googling "gunstock duplicators" and I came across another website and after reading the History section and browsing around on it, thought his machine plans sounded pretty good. http://www.copycarver.com He actually tried the Craftsman pantograph and found that it was worthless. Then he tried a $3,600 duplicator and it was no good either.
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Sun, Aug 26, 2007, 12:21pm (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (jdarylh1) doth query: I'm trying to make a custom pistol grip and wondered if anyone thinks the Craftsman Router Pantograph would do that? I have a baked clay model to go from. If Craftsman won't work, does anyone have any other suggestions?
If it was me, I woulnd't ask, I'd just try it and see if it'd work. If it doeesn't, no big deal to shape grips by hand. I made an excellent pair of custom fit grips out of some sort of wood putty (that I've never been able to find any of since), for a house gun, point of aim was right on to where I pointed. The grips came out looking like solid wood, very nice. If I remembered the name of the stuff, I'd buy more.
JOAT I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do them. - Picasso
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J T wrote:

By chance was it "Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty"?
http://www.waterputty.com /
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Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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Sun, Aug 26, 2007, 10:31pm (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net (Nova) doth query: By chance was it "Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty"? http://www.waterputty.com /
Dunno, been a few years. The stuff I used, you could add some, and it would adhere perfectly, and when you sanded it couldn't even tell where it was added. If this stuff will do that, it might be what I used.
JOAT I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do them. - Picasso
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Sun, Aug 26, 2007, 10:31pm (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net (Nova) did quey thusly: By chance was it "Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty"?
Now that I've though more on it, I don't think so. This stuff came in a can, pre-mixed, and I recall the can clearly had the word 'wood' on it, nothing about water. I didn't buy it, given to me, so I don't know where it came from, and didn't pay much attention to the label. I've tried several woofillers since, none even come close to this stuff. Now that I would like to get more, they've probably discontinued it - they've done that before..
JOAT What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new humiliations? - Peter Egan
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if you can accurately draw the part in cad your best bet is going to be have it made by someone with a CNC machine. otherwise, and especially if you need one-of-a-kind parts, just learn to carve. carving is a lot of fun and really puts you in touch with your work.
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Sun, Aug 26, 2007, 12:21pm (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (jdarylh1) doth sayeth: I'm trying to make a custom pistol grip and wondered if anyone thinks the Craftsman Router Pantograph would do that? I have a baked clay model to go from. If Craftsman won't work, does anyone have any other suggestions?
I'm curious now. What are you meaning by "custom" grips that makes you figure your "require" some sort of a duplicator carver to make? Here's some custom grips that were made by hand. http://www.jamesdjulia.net/firearm/mar07/catalog_detail.asp?Details0368 Not only that, the guy made the pistols too. He was a well respected gun designer, and maker, back around WWII.
Unless you plan on something really extraordinary, pistol grips aren't hard to make. Trace a blank, cut it out, shape. That's basically it.
JOAT What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new humiliations? - Peter Egan
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that exotic. It's just that I don't have the patient, "enjoy the journey" mindset a lot of people have. To me, the end result is my focus and I want to get there as fast and easily as possible. That's why I have nail guns, cordless drills and power saws. Some folks are really into hand tools and slow, methodical work processes. I'm just not built that way.
I can probably make one without a duplicator, but after making a test version out of pine, I started thinking that there had to be a faster, easier way. My clay model is really precise in terms of fit, and to exactly (or close) duplicate that in wood has been a slow, tedious process. The pine grip wasn't all that successful, but it was my first. The next one will be better but I'm looking for a better way to transfer the dimensions and rough it in other than trace, measure, get the calipers, etc.
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Wed, Aug 29, 2007, 4:15am (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (jdarylh1) doth sayeth: <snip> I want to get there as fast and easily as possible. That's why Ihave nail guns, cordless drills and power saws. <snip> I can probably make one without a duplicator, but after making a test version out of pine, I started thinking that there had to be a faster, easier way. My clay model is really precise in terms of fit, and to exactly (or close) duplicate that in wood has been a slow, tedious process. The pine grip wasn't all that successful, but it was my first. The next one will be better but I'm looking for a better way to transfer the dimensions and rough it in other than trace, measure, get the calipers, etc.
Yeah, I've got power tools, but sometimes it's more relaxing to just do something by hand.
Well, you could make a pair of grips like I did, with wood filler, and mold it. I used saran wrap around the revolver grip area, packed on filler, set some saran wrap on that, then fit my hand on it, and squeezed. When it dried, sanded it, tried it, added filler, repeat. Took a couple or three days to finish, but wound up with totally custom gps, with finger grooves, and thumb rest. Completely form fitting. As a house gun it would aim exactly where I pointed my hand, didn't need to use sights. That's one way.
Or, you could cave balsa, that'd go fast, and soak it with epoxy when done But If I was doing it, and had hard clay molds I wanted to copy, I'd make a simple duplicator, with a Dremel type tool. Fix it and a pinin a fixture, suspend that from a frame with springs (maybe hinges on the back side, and two springs in the front), and have the frame on casters (Hell, you could even cut hollows, and roll it on marbles), so it could move. Have the model, and piece to be carved fastened from below, so they won't shift. I'd rough cut excess of the piece to be carved. Then just lower the fixture, so a guide pin can go over the model, and have the Dremel spaced so it will go over the piece to be carved. That should rough cut well enough. For a one-time thing anyway. I'd still just prefer the filler method, unless you want pretty wood, to show off.
I was gonna mold a woodfiller cheeck rest for my squirrel rifle, but wound up laminating one instead. But I'll probably mold one for a scoped air rifle..
JOAT What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new humiliations? - Peter Egan
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Wed, Aug 29, 2007, 4:15am (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (jdarylh1) doth sayeth: <snip> I'm looking for a better way to transfer the dimensions andrough it in other than trace, measure, get the calipers, etc.
I forgot to ask before I pished send. Are these going to be target grips? That would be the only reason for being as precise as you seem to be wanting. Target grips for competition that is. For day-to-day use I'd say forget target grips. And regular grips don't need to be that precise, just comfortable. Actually, even target grips are not normally as precise as seems to be you're wanting. The top of the line grips are adjustable tho. I'd say forget the precise measurements, get a rough wood rasp, and go to it. Won't take long with one of those. My old man made a nice pair of walnut revolver grips with a pocket knife, and somepaper.
JOAT What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new humiliations? - Peter Egan
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Yep, these are target grips but also the feel of custom grips just can't be beat. I like your idea of the wood filler, that's pretty cool. What brand did you use? I'll have to try it sometime. I wanted this set to be fancy wood though. Also putting together a quick frame for a Dremel sounds good. I'll put some thought to that. Seems quicker and less complicated than the Copycarver I mentioned in my previous posting.
The Copycarver would be much better, but for a one time use, the Dremel would probably serve. Maybe I'll rough out some with my bandsaw, then chuck a rasp in my die grinder, knock off more, then put it on the Dremel concoction and finish it off. Or if I'm lucky and don't screw up, maybe the die grinder will get it close enough to the sanding stage where I won't have to do anything more.
The part that has me most worried is the inside where it has to be a dead fit to the pistol skeleton. How good the fit is, determines if the grip's going to move around. The single screw only holds the two halves together. That's where the Dremel thing would work really well. I could trace around the inside of the old grip and the Dremel would duplicate that on the inside of the new ones.
I wish someone made carbide router bits that fit a Dremel. HSS doesn't hold up at all and I'll probably have to go through a few of them before the job's done.
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Thu, Aug 30, 2007, 4:20am (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (jdarylh1) doth sayeth: Yep, these are target grips <snip> I like your idea of the wood filler, that's pretty cool. What brand did you use? <snip> The part that has me most worried is the inside where it has to be a dead fit to the pistol skeleton. <snip>
Unless you're using them in competition, or just punching paper targets, I personally wouldn't bother with target grips.
I was given the filler, and don't recall the name. Wish I did.
Depends on the handgun, and the grips. The grips I made went on a revolver. The originals fit into the frame. I did the same with the ones I made, but they also wrapped completely around the frame. I've got another revolver that the grips wrap comletely around the frame. Got a spare set of grips that are completely flat inside, they were held in place for the fit on top against the frame, and by a pin on the bottom, and held together with a screw. They were replaced with a pair of wrap around rubber grips. But if you fit them inside the frame, as long as they connect at at least 3 points, should stay in place. Could just glue a separate piece to the grips, to save routing/carving the inside. Nice thing about using pine, it's inexpensive, should work pretty easy, you don't feel bad about scrapping it if you screw up, it will work well when finished, and should look good.
JOAT What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new humiliations? - Peter Egan
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One other thing you might look at is thermoset plastic putty like Fimo or Sculpy. I've made grips from Sculpy and they work quite well. This is a plastic putty that can be cured or set in an oven @ 275 for 15 minutes per 1/4" of material. I've also carved grips "freehand" with a Dremel using a router base to keep the cuts perpendicular. Just go slow, work from the center out, and know which side of the line to stop on. 1911-style grips are a piece of cake once you get/make a few tools. I've made a jig to get the screw holes the proper distance apart, a jig for the bandsaw that uses these holes (jig rides in miter saw slot) that uses these holes and cuts outline, and to sand to shape, I've got a piece of 1" mild steel tubing that I have grip bushings mounted on - I screw the grip blank into this and sand to shape w/belt sander.
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That's actually what I used to make the original form. Was really easy to get a great fit. But I really want to transfer that to wood, much cooler looking if it's done right. I put some thought into JT's comments about an easily made 3D carver and I've come up with an idea that should work awesome and it just uses scraps I have lying around. If it works like I think it will, I should post photos so someone else could make one if they needed it. I decided to power it by my Rotozip instead of my Dremel. Much beefier and more selection of carbide bits for it. It'll be a while before I get it made though...it's really easy to build but I've got other stuff going on so I have to work this in as I can.
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Tue, Sep 4, 2007, 4:12am (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (jdarylh1) doth sayeth: That's actually what I used to make the original form. Was really easy to get a great fit. But I really want to transfer that to wood, much cooler looking if it's done right. <snip>
The nice thing about the stuff I used was it not only worked well, it acually looked like solid wood when it dried. Kinda like holly. I just can't remember what the name of it was.
I later used some other wood filler to mold a pistol grip for my squirrel rifle. It molded well enough, but didn't look even close to wood when it dried. Which didn't matter a lot, as I wound up painting it black. Next time around I think I'll try making my own wood filler, using wood flower, with glue or shellac as the binder.
JOAT What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new humiliations? - Peter Egan
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