Panel question (again)

[Garage_Woodworks]

I made my panels for my TV stand. I have never made solid panels for a project (usually plywood for and application like this.)

My panels are 18.5" wide by 14.5" long. They are 0.34" thick and need to fit into a 0.25" groove (I made them a little thicker).

I was going to use a raised panel bit to bevel the back so the panel fits, but I want it to fit deeper in the groove without being too thin. So I decided to rabbet the panels all the way around using a rabbeting bit in the router.

My question: For panels this wide and thick, how much should I rabbet in each side AND how much of the rabbet should I sink in the groove. If I sink the panel all the way until it buts up against the frame all the way around, expansion would push the frame apart.

Please help a neophyte...

Project here:

[Lew Hodgett]

You need to spend more time watching Norm, (If and when your PBS station isn't begging).

Cutting those rabbets is one of his tricks for handling metric size ply and fractional router bits.

Make the rabbet cut such that the 1/4" tongue is about 1/16 from bottoming out in the groove.

BTW, this is a natural for a dado, if you have one.

Have fun.

Lew

[Garage_Woodworks]

I haven't watched a show in over a year. Unfortionately...

How much should I leave between the shoulder of the rabbet and the frame?

I have one, but its a home depot POS.

[Lew Hodgett]

You lost me.

If the tongue end floats in the frame, the panel rabbet shoulder will automatically butt up against the frame. Based on how you build the frame, there will automatically be some panel float.

When you clamp the frame, clamp the corners only.

As long as the tongue is a dry fit in the frame, you should be good to go.

BTW, is the frame 3/4"?

Will the groove in the frame be centered in the frame?

Lew

[Garage_Woodworks]

Sorry, my fault. Let me try and clarify:

If the frame is touching the left rabett shoulderand right rabbet shoulder expansion will blow out the frame.

I guess this might be a better way to ask this qesition. How much 'float' should I have with regard to rabett shoulders on each side.

No. Please see here:

> Will the groove in the frame be centered in the frame?

[Lew Hodgett]

If the panel is 1/16" smaller all the way around and you will be good to go.

It appears the exterior side of the panel will provide a flat panel appearance while the rabbet shoulder will be hidden on the inside?

If so, the panel will float in the frame grooves and the shoulder clearance can be anything you want, or am I missing something?

Lew

[randyswoodshoop]

ever heard of space balls? These are little round rubber balls places inside the grove that the panel rest against.. as if expands is presses the balls flat as is shrinks it holds the pnels in place...

Randy

[Leon]

Cut the panel to be 1/2" narrower and shorter than the actual distance between the bottom of all the groves/dado's in the rails and stiles. Then cut the rabbet on those panels to a width about the depth of groves/dado's in the rails and stiles are deep. If the depth of the groves is 1/2" cut the rabbet 1/2" Remember the panels will be 1/4" short on all sides of reaching the bottom of the rail and stile groves.

This should result in a panel that will sink to the bottom of the groove in the bottom rail of the completed panel. HOWEVER use "Space Balls" in all the groves to keep the panels centered in the rail and stile frame.

Space Balls are small black rubber balls that are about 1/4" in diameter and maintain equal spacing around the perimeter of the floating panel and the bottoms of all the groves in the rails and stiles. Lee Valley should have the "Space Balls".

[Garage_Woodworks]

Won't the shoulder of the panel be flush with the frame all the way around, even though the tongue of the rabett is not bottoming out?

Based on what I have extacted from these exchanges so far, it looks like I need to cut the rabetts 1/16" larger on the two sides that will expand-contract.?.

Not really a concern here. These are flat panels with the rabett in the inside. It will always appear 'centered' from the outside.

Good tip though. I haven't heard of space balls before.

[Garage_Woodworks]

Picture posted to ABPW for clarification.

[Robatoy]

Don't bother with SpaceBalls. Take a piece of closed cell cord, such as the material used to hold screen in a window screen and cut 1/4" pieces off and stuff those in the grooves at the corners. They will centre the panel automatically and offer just the right resistance/ spring action. Eight in total, two in each corner.

[Robatoy]

Yes, the panel will 'appear' centered, but during the finishing process, you can have 'shadows' from either the stain or final finish... unless you plan to pre-finish the panel before insertion.

[Leon]

The tongue should be "just under" 1/4 the depth of the groove. The 1/4" space balls will take up the remainder of the space. The rabbet should be about 1/4 exposed to allow for expansion. If you cut the panel to be 1/2" shorter and narrower than the assebled rail and stiles groves only they should be 1/4" short of reaching the bottom of the groves. Then you want the tongue of the rabbet to have about 1/4" exposeure.

It can be a concern! IF you stain the panel or finish the panel after assembling the panel the unstained or unfinished sections hidden in the groves will be exposed if the panel moves or contracts from seasonal changes. And you do not want the panel to be the same size of the distance between the bottoms of opposite groves. Remember you need to allow for expansion when using solid wood panels. Plywood is not so important in this respect.

[dadiOH]

Minimally, the same as between the tongue and inside edge of frame.

[mac davis]

Last LV catalog I saw had what I think could be better than Space Balls.. They're sort of football shaped..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

[Upscale]

Here's the rubber spacers Mac is talking about.

[Garage_Woodworks]

Thank you to those that responded. I finished the panels and they came out ok. I will be finishing the panels first, so that centering the panels is a non-issue. I am going to look into getting some space balls for future projects.

The panels are book matched (first time doing this). I found it difficult on some of the panel sections to keep the book match continuity. Maybe I had to plane too much from the panels after resawing?? Not sure. I need to work on this. Not too bad for a first book matched panel though.

[Garage_Woodworks]

[Mark & Juanita]

They work really well. Something else that works, if you don't have space balls on hand is small diameter tubing. I fixed an RV door for someone last summer -- the manufacturer had stapled ~1/8" tubing at intervals in the dado to stabilize the door and allow for expansion.

[Nova]

Small pieces of vinyl spline used to secure window screening also works.