Overuse of machine tools?

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dadiOH wrote:

BTW, did you know there are grades within the grades? For example, there is US Choice but there is also US Choice+ and US Choice-. Same thing in the other grades. http://meat.tamu.edu/beefgrading/
Want to bet which your local super market is selling as USDA Select/Choice/Prime?
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dadiOH
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On 4/30/2013 7:32 PM, dadiOH wrote:

You provided some interesting examples.
Even at BestBuy in the laptop section -- NONE with a solid-state drive (which arguably most should have) and ALL with Windows 8 (except for Apple's) which almost nobody seems to want.
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wrote:

Because not enough want them.

Shoes? They still come in various widths. I wear 12EEEEEE. They're not available everywhere but they are available. Amazon, for one.

Maybe where you live. I can get meat cut to order at any of the supermarkets, here. There are butcher shops, too. I don't choose to, often, because I'd rather not pay the price. Choice isn't just a cut of beef.

Nonsense. It's *all* economics. People choose not to pay for such things, so they don't exist.

Choice.
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On 5/1/2013 12:22 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

I am going to call you on that one, considering furniture, I seriously doubt that most people today realize that there is better furniture to be had. Most people that I have dealt with think they have good furniture. They see how I build my furniture and that is generally all they need to see to commission me to build for them.
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As someone who was raised on home built and second hand furniture, I did not know how BAD conventional furniture was until I got out in the world and saw it for the first time. I was amazed how flimsy a lit of it was. I remember building some bookshelves that did not fit in a particular space. I gave the bookshelves to my sister. She, and her house visitors, were amazed on how "sturdy" the bookshelves were. That was over 25 years ago. Visitors to her house, 25 years later, still remark on how "sturdy" those shelves are.
That only means one thing. There is a lot of crap out there and when people run into something different, it is a bit of a revelation for them.
Another thing. I came to the big city and had access to hardware stores, lumber yards, tools, classified ads, garage sales, etc. Far more resources than I had growing up. So I started building. And immediately got lots of criticism for ''too many fasteners", "too many braces", "too heavy" furniture", etc. Apparently if you weren't building low quality, wobbly stuff, you weren't doing it right!
People raised around crap go through a change when exposed to the good stuff. I have been a corrupting force in this regard.
I mean, really, who sets out to build wobbly crap? Either you don't know any better or you just don't care.
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"Lee Michaels" wrote in message

To expand upon this a bit. I think there is also a resource component to these decisions... Generally, people would like book shelves made of the most suitable materials with proven construction methods. However, the reality is many lack deep enough pockets to make it happen... The competing agendas of satisfying the needs for food, shelter, clothing, transportation, education and entertainment command a higher weight in the allocation of their finite financial resources than do book shelves. In those cases a complete Ikea or Saunder unit, that may cost in total as much as one nice cherry board, becomes the choice by economic necessity. Here it's a case of satisficing versus optimizing and it can still be considered a rational decision.
As you suggest, there is another group whom has the resources but not the knowledge. That is where folks like us can help educate them. Perhaps not in a know-it-all way but by example. The story here about the sturdy shelves that people notice is a good example of that... Together the satisficing and unknowledgeable may be guided to better, yet cost effective, solutions to their furniture needs by folks here.
The don't cares... well... they may not be worth the breath or bytes. However, maybe they would care if they understood better, which takes us back to the above.
I've been giving a lot of thought to issues like this recently as concerns my involvement with various organizations and their seemingly competing agendas. Where I see a tremendous amount of commonality in my activities others focus like a laser on what I see as relatively small differences that can be ignored or influenced through discussion. I think we rec'ers can be educators and transferors of knowledge, not only within the rec but to the other circles in which we live.
Anyhow... enough of this thinking in bytes stuff for now. ;~)
John
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On 5/1/2013 3:43 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

the means, but replace things every few years to change things up. They are the fashionable types, and for them it's better to keep up then spend on the better. The classics never go out of style...
--
Jeff

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On 5/1/2013 6:31 PM, woodchucker wrote:

I have always said, quality is always in style.
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On 5/1/2013 2:43 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

I will have to disagree a little bit again. From repeated first hand experience with customers, people generally would not know suitable materials and proven construction methods if they knocked them upside their heads. They still pay way too much for crap, I mean pretty to look at but don't move it. As an example if you Google Amish furniture store and go to one of those stores I believe you will find top quality furniture that beats the pants off the pricing you would find most any where else. I mentioned to Lee that I recently bought 6 Amish made dining room chairs. They were $250 each. Not cheap but they come with a life time warranty that I will probably never need and were very competitively priced with much less quality name brand stuff. When I was quoted the price for all 6 chairs I did not hesitate to accept. That price above included delivery.
For twice this price, you would get it at an Amish Furniture store and never have to worry about replacing. And again the Amish is delivered assembled, this set is neither.
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S69917334/
I know, twice as much but the much better choice.
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wrote:

THe Amish place we bought ours from delivers but wants $1.50/mile, IIRC. That kinda puts it out of range, now, since it's 600mi. away. ;-) I will be ordering more pieces to fill out what we have, and perhaps a breakfast set (pub table) but I'll have to pick it all up.

Amazing. I was shocked at their kitchens when we went through the place a couple of years ago. The stuff wouldn't last five years. It's a good place to buy butcher block, though.
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On 5/1/2013 7:07 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Ahhh so you know... ;~) If you are not near a store that would be a bummer. We actually found the chairs we liked at a store 200+ miles away and there would be a delivery charge. Luckily we found the same chair in a Houston Amish store.
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wrote:

Yeah, I know. I was contracting working in Ohio for a year. The money was good and I was working 65 and 70 hour weeks, we went all-in while we were there (got a handmade quilt for the bed, too). We figured that we should add something to the family heirlooms. ;-) They'll be around long after we will.
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On 5/1/2013 7:31 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Yeah, they probably will be around for a very long time. My wife is a quilter, she looks at the quilts I look at the furniture.
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"Leon" wrote in message

I think this actually fits with what I wrote... For those whom cannot understand the difference even with some guidance there are myriad choices of mediocre stuff available to them! We cannot take it personally when they do so... ;~)
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"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:

Stay a week in a house with and use handcrafted kitchen cabinets, then take a stroll through a showroom at the Borgs with the KitchenMaid, et al factory-made displays and I guarantee you will be startled by what you missed/didn't notice the first time you saw the latter ... your eye will be forever ruined in favor of the former.
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On 5/1/13 5:11 PM, Swingman wrote:>

+10!
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On 5/1/2013 1:48 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

majority of the stuff being offered, even the good stuff, with one exception. I recently ordered 6 dining room chairs from an Amish furniture store. These are well built, comfortable,and all solid wood chairs. Not all Amish furniture is great but the worse is typically as good as all the others best.
Several years ago we had an upper end furniture store that sold the Mission style, Stickley brand furniture. From the front it looked nice but it showed signs of being mass produced and the back sides looked terrible.
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wrote:

Our dining and bedroom furniture is all Amish (Mission style) Cherry. Nice stuff but it wasn't cheap. It was about the same price as top end furniture store stuff (about $15K for both rooms).

Does anyone really look at the back sides? I find that most stuff in the furniture stores has a really cheap looking finish, even the top of the line stuff. It seems that *dark* stain is back in, too. Ick! That's what people want, though.
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On 05/01/2013 04:53 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

That's why they call it "Ick-e-ah".
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gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
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On 5/1/2013 7:11 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:

What I find funny is all that HIGH dollar furniture that is painted, to cover up the fact that the wood is a mish mash of marginal woods.
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