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wrote:

Sure it is. A concrete slab is often referred to as a slab, regardless if the underlying engineering. The correct name of this example is "post tension cable slab". I have certainly inspected my share, as have my engineering buddies.
http://www.posttensionslabs.com/faq.html
They have been around for many years, and I saw them used extensively as a young man framing houses in the early/mid 70's. There are literally hundreds of thousands of them around here. IF the are installed properly, the make a economical, structurally sound solution.

Nope. If you saw a post tension cable slab that wouldn't hold weight, they were probably engineered incorrectly or installed out of specification requirements. Don't blame slab failure on poor engineering or poor implementation.
This type of installation is routinely used here in South Texas where warranted and cost efficient. If you are building in a country town far away from equipment, engineers, etc., a conventional slab of rebar/ concrete will still be the answer.
Why? A post tension slab carries its own soil compaction requirements, as well as a study of the substrate to identify its plasticity. This requires a lot of testing lab time as well as the proper machinery to compact the pad (usually in lifts) to meet the correct specs.
Here's a great discussion as a reprint from Residential Concrete magazine:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2waza8n
It does a nice job discussing loads, use, etc. and should put your mind at ease to see that installed properly they will carry a great load.
Note the part where they discuss active or live cracking resistance. This probably the single largest reason this type of slab construction is used in most of our town.
Out in the country, all that equipment and trips by engineers to make sure you have a proper pad and the engineer's papwork to prove it is cost prohibitive, so they still pour the way they did 150 years ago. Put twice as much steel in the slab as you need and add more beams to be safe, then pour the best strength concrete you can afford. It's an expensive slab.
But that old fashioned style is not needed when equipment, labs, engineers, etc., are twenty minutes away. That is why post tension is now used for apartments (some three stories!), heavy duty car parking lots, and all manner of heavy use slabs of concrete.
But there are two major problems with post tension methodology.
1) the guy that tensions the cables must understand exactly what he is doing, and how important it is to be accurate when tensioning. This requires training and someone without ADD. Also, it was found here after examining sever PT slab failures, that the dogs (wedges) that hold the cable were damaged by the tensioning crew.
When they have finished tensioning, they let the cables relax for a day or two, then cut the excess cable off with a torch. It was found that the poor cutting technique of the cutter (usually a laborer) got the wedges in the retaining jaws on the cable so hot they lost their tempering. They teeth became soft, they slipped, and the cable lost its tension. Nothing but bad after that.
2) You cannot pour complex shapes. Post tension shines on today's mono-level house slabs, in our post sunken room era. Steps up, steps down, to sunken rooms, garages, etc., that break up the single or double plane of a slab make it cost prohibitive to work around the profile/elevation differences.
Probably more than you ever wanted....
Robert
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On 12/20/2010 11:27 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: <snip of excellent info>

More than any one, except engineers and builders, would want to know, and IMO, the definitive guide to foundations in expansive soils:
http://www.foundationperformance.org/projects/FPA-SC-01-0.pdf
The parent organization ... guys know their stuff:
http://www.foundationperformance.org /
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**Excellent** discussion and drawings. This is a "must have" for me. I love stuff like that!
BUT.... I can't save the .pdf file. I can print it, but no saving to disk. I checked the security settings on the pdf itself, and it said that it isn't protected and could be printed or saved. Apparently not by me.
Print, yes. Save, no.
Any ideas?
Robert
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I had no problem saving it. See attached. If it doesn't come through I can post it to abpw. Sorry, had to yEnc it.
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Han
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wrote:

What works for me sometimes is to bring the pdf file up to look at it. Then go to the different save functions on screen.
I don't know how clear that is. It is just that sometimes I can not copy the file directly. So I display the document on my monitor. THEN I save it from within the displayed document itself. Most of the time, this works. And I mean different save functions too. I have had the file/save function not work. And the little floppy SAVE icon work. No rhyme or reason apparent here.
There seems to be some kind of strange format protection built into some pdf documents. You can not copy the files. But you can save the file when displayed.
Like I said, this works most of the time. There are pdf documents that I have not been able to save though.
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 08:33:11 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

It saved OK for me, Naily. Did you click on the little disk icon in the Acrobat Reader window, or try to save with the browser? The browser will fail every time, I think. BTDT, got the tee.
-- If the only prayer you ever say in your whole life is "thank you," that would suffice. -- Meister Eckhart
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wrote:

Thanks, guys. I have no idea what is going on.
I am at another computer now, and it saved perfectly. Off it goes to a labeled archive CD for future reference.
Ain't technology wonderful? Thanks to all that tried to help.
Robert
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wrote:

AHA! A clue....
I am back at my own computer now, and there is no disk icon to save.
However, Sr. Jaques, I tried saving with the browser, **and it didn't fail**, it worked perfectly.
Personally, I have never had the browser work like that. But (using Firefox) I clicked on *file* then *save page as* and it worked like a champ.
Like I said, that trick hasn't worked in years, but in a moment of desperation I tried it after reading your post.
The hell of it all is that I keep Adobe updated as I have had problems in the past with it when I didn't. Some of my more professional friends send me pdfs with all kinds of embeds, and without the newest version of the reader you can't always read or open the files.
Hell.... I got nothin'.
Robert
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I'm starting to get the idea that you just MUST have a FM type computer.
You know- - f_ckin' magic! ! !
<g>
--
Jim in NC

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On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 01:55:52 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

Interesting. I use Firefox, too, and savint the file from there has never worked. But, since Adobe provides the internal controls when you open their add-on in the Firefox window, I can use the little icon to save them. It's odd that you have the exact opposite experience.

Yeah, isn't that hell? Everyone keeps updating and you can't just use an older copy. 'Lebenty seven differnt progs have to be updated constantly just to keep up. To website owners, I recommend using a couple versions older copies so everyone might be able to use the site without having to upgrade their software.

So solly! Every once in awhile, I douche Adobe Reader and redownload for its non-compliance that day. Bits go haywire. I suggest trying that; remove and reinstall from a fresh copy.
-- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.
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Adobe changed their stuff "again" and the little diskette disappeared a while back. Depending on your release of Adobe, it might be there and then again, maybe not.
I get a "update" from Adobe about once a month and it is becoming "very" annoying. I'm up to about Version 9.4.1, which no longer has the diskette but does have a "save file as" under the "file" options.
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Ditto on the annoying! My version is the most up to date as I get ticked off a the nag screens and just do it since I know I will have to sooner or later.
The other computer with the diskette has an older version.
I guess it was too intuitive, too easy to use so they "upgraded" the program.
Robert
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Interesting stuff. The heaving is also a problem for building on permafrost (there is also the thawing issue). One solution for permafrost is a space frame foundation. See for example one old article from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation: ftp://ftp.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/cmhc/90_222.html
Luigi
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On 12/20/2010 9:15 AM, Rich wrote:

Indeed, it is ALL about "expansive soils" ...
The tail that wags the dog regarding the types of foundation used in construction is the "soil report" for the particular foundation's _location upon which it is built_.
Our soil in this region is mostly expansive clays. The main problem, simplistically speaking, with this type of soil is periodic "upheaval" due to a cycle of drought and wet seasons, which puts pressure on the bottom of the foundation, said pressure from underneath causing foundation failures.
The best possible foundation for this type of soil is, IMO, a "structural slab with void space", which alleviates the upheaval pressure by actually having a void beneath the foundation.
An extreme example of this can be seen in the following foundation I built last year where the soil required a 12" void space beneath the grade beams, even though it was a crawl space and not a slab on grade:
http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/SBFoundation?authkey=Gv1sRgCIj3svr7nb34fg #
The soil in this area heaved up to six inches depending upon drought cycles.
These types of foundation are much more expensive than a post tension slab, the latter which has a high fixability factor in the event of a foundation failure, and this factor is a valid concept.
As you can see in the previous link posted, many types of foundations will work in these types of soil, but it boils down to the fact that tract/volume home builders can play statistical odds on foundation failures that custom home builders can't readily play when it comes to choosing a foundation type.
In a nutshell, you ALWAYS let the soil report dictate the type of slab, and in most cases the builder will have a choice of valid types and costs from which to choose stated in that report.
With foundations, you make your choices and you take your chances ...
--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
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Swingman wrote:

http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/SBFoundation?authkey=Gv1sRgCIj3svr7nb34fg #
Wow, lots of work! Are the poured columns setting on bedrock? Wondering how far you have to go down to hit bedrock? I know it will very...
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
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Nicely done, Leon!
You may be the first ever to have your house built on time, finished at the expected date (unless of course, you have Swing build it..... ;^) ) in good order.
Good for you!
I have a feeling this is long deserved for you and Kim. I'll bet she is thrilled. The house looks great.
Robert
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

in 2001, i had a custom house built that came in 3 days under schedule, and under budget to boot. leon may be the 2nd.
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A Texan was visiting Toronto and he was going on and on about the size of the Astrodome and how quickly they built it. While driving past the CN tower, he asked the cabbie: "What's that tall tower called?" The cabbie said: "I don't know, it wasn't here this morning...."
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Thank you Robert, maybe y'all can squeeze a peek while you are down.
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