OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it

Page 2 of 4  


There is always going to be the odd entries that lure those looking for something different. Remember the Edsel?
And FWIW dealers normally "take" delivery of new vehicles that they ordered. Dealers that accept delivery typically are accepting those units which they did not order. Read that as they accepted vehicles as a favor or trade. They accept just about any kind of vehicle that they can get their hands until they can start building a supply of vehicles that they have actually ordered. New dealers typically jump through hoops with the factory until they get their feet on the ground.
A new dealer accepting a load of unique vehicles is not as good as it sounds.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Leon" wrote:

Trust me as a salesman that if I get a chance to place an order for 28 widgets that cost in excess of $20K each and resell 24 of them at a profit in 20 days, you can bet your sweet rear end I'm a happy salesman.
Lew
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Of course, the salesman always get paid, profit or no profit. And yes it is not a stretch to loose money on the sale of a traded vehicle. Hopefully the loss is made up when the trade-in is finally sold.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Pot, Kettle

That oil spill is all but forgotten.

Please! Not required to clean up pollution??????? Did CA ax the automobile emissions laws?

No question it the greenies have their way.

LOL

Electric vehicles are all over the place and enjoying the success of selling to the .05% of buyers that think they are making a difference.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"Leon" wrote:

Wonder if that is the reason BP is in the middle of a pubic relations campaign across the country using the national media?
Somehow I don't think so.
That BP spill simply exposed what an environmental risk off shore drilling can be.
This time around it won't be forgotten so quickly. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Leon" wrote:

We are gaining on it in CA, too bad much of the rest of the country has it's collective head where the moon doesn't shine. ---------------------------------------------------------------- "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"Leon" wrote:

Too many of the big boys are getting into the electric vehicle market for it not to grow significantly.
VW as one comes to mind.
My guess is that in 10 years or less, the majority of vehicles manufactured will be electric.
Lew
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 21:16:54 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

I'm not quite that optimistic, but I can envision it happening within the next quarter century. With entrepreneurs like Tesla fully committed to electric vehicle promotion, it will happen sooner than later. Add onto that the fact that the Tesla *looks damned good* IMHO, the electric car field has nowhere to go except up.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Tesla is going to have to cut pricing by 2/3 to have a serious alternative to gasoline vehicles. The bigger less expensive vehicle that will go long distances will drive the market.
That said Tesla is toying with a prototype battery exchange station to give the vehicle the ability to leave one city to go to another. Unfortunately those stations will have to be 3 times closer than gas stations and I suspect that a charged exchange battery will be pretty pricey.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Sure, there's going to be some difficulties, but certainly many fewer difficulties than Ford had when he started producing his model T. The main thing is that the ball is rolling. I truly believe it's an inexorable ball too. Go back a little as a twenty years. Who would have believed that the electric car would be or *is* now a practical reality.
Yeah, ten, twenty, twenty five years is a huge amount of time considering our drive to produce new technology.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I believe the electric car will evolve but I still believe it will take decades at a minimum before they become an actual benefit to the environment.. You still have to factor in the impact they have on the environment during manufacture, the maintaining of their components, and their eventual disposal/recycling. There should be disclosure statements with each unit as to what the impact is going to be on the environment much like the carbon foot print that is determined for each fossil fuel vehicle.
Ford's issue was building a vehicle fast enough to meet with demand. Demand for the Model T was hundreds of times greater than it is for electrics or hybrids. Yes demand for the electrics/hybrids are greater than they were 15 + years ago, but there are more to choose from. The problem is that they are still as much of an I'm pact on the environment as ever and still pretty much have down time limitations for recharging when they can't be used. They will be popular for those that believe that they are doing the environment a good deed and have relatively small needs for having a vehicle that will take them to a destination 60 miles away from home and back. There are countless people that make a treck this far on a daily basis just to go to work. In particular these commuters live in heavy population areas, ironically this is where the electrics should be most popular.. Time will tell how fast this transition will take place if it actually does take place. IMHO electrics in the foreseeable future will be more of a novelty to those that can afford..
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Leon" wrote:

Tesla is already committed to producing a vehicle that will sell for about $30K within 3-5 years.
Since the average daily auto trip is about 29 miles, per Nissan, long distances are the exception, not the rule.
200 miles between recharge is already here.
Economy has not been addressed in this thread.
A KWH of power generated by an internal combustion engine is considerably more expensive than a KWH produced by a fixed utility.
Reduced operating costs help to offset initial costs.
Lew
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Committed. But that still is not yet a reality. Oldsmobile was committed to build a Diesel engine. GM was committed to build a competitive small car, Saturn. Karmen Fiscar was committed. The question will be, will they be able to produce a vehicle that buyers will want at 1/3 their current price and still be able to remain in business selling that cheaply in as little as 3~5 years. It is only if the masses find the cheaper vehicle to be at least equal to the traditional vehicles will that vehicle have a chance of succeeding.

Seriously, 29 is not even in the ball park for any relative big, not large city, commuter. I was in the automotive business for most all of my professional career and in particular in the repair end of the dealership business. 32 miles a day every day is just under 12,000 moles a year. When you see a vehicle that is only driven that distance it is considered a below average low mileage vehicle. 24,000 miles a year is the actual normal mileage that is placed on a vehicle and as one would expect a majority of those miles are going to and from work. Since the 5 day work week excludes weekend driving those a majority of those 24,000 miles are racked up in 250 ish days vs 365 days. Now the daily travel distance for the average city driver goes up to almost 100 miles a day.
While Nissan claims that the average auto trip is 29 miles a day I highly suspect that what they are not telling you is that the average daily trip for a Leaf driver will be 29 miles a day.

And not as affordable as a gasoline equally equipped vehicle. Hell, those experimental solar electrics go 1,000 miles in the desert but they too are not yet affordable or practice.
I'm not saying that I'm against electrics but being a realist and observing what is actually happening vs what the media wants to report I am looking at what the electrics are going to have to offer that will be an advantage over the competition before you see any majority shift in how the vehicle is fueled.

electric powered motor was 4 times efficient to power vs an internal combustion engine. Read that as the electric only required 1/4 the energy as the gasoline consumes to produce the same amount of power.
BUT a battery pack for storing generated electricity is countless times more expensive than a gasoline fuel tank and today the capacity of the electric power storage is 25~35% of the average energy stored in a gasoline fuel tank.
And then finally, the biggest obstacle for the all electric vehicle is the time it takes for replenishing to a full charge vs the five minutes it takes to refuel a gasoline tank.
Unfortunately for the electrics is that they are going to end up at home for recharging. It is next to impossible to consider it to be a practice alternative for driving from Houston to the next largest city and back in the same day. That fact in itself will be one of the deal breakers..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

That 10 year number comes from the industry itself, not me, I'm just the messenger.
Lew
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Well first Lew, you say "your guess" is that in 10 years or less the "majority" of vehicles will be electric. Now you say this number comes from the industry.
That industry naturally will make that claim, it's make it or break it time. That industry needs an enormous infusion of cash from investors to be able to mass produce a vehicle that will actually perform and go the distance and be at least equal in amenities as the much much lower price vehicles available right now with gasoline/diesel engines.
I hope that 10 years is a realistic and achievable time frame but I don't see the trend growing that fast. It seems to be growing fast because of all of the attention it is getting but I am still seeing, in Houston, the vast majority of new vehicles being equipped with the traditional internal combustion engine. Many more hurdles will have to be over come before the "majority of new vehicle buyers make the switch.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

My bet is that in ten years there will be FEWER electric and hybrid cars on the market than there are now. Cars won't be smaller or get much better mileage and barring (even more) government meddling, gas won't be much more expensive in a decade, either. Two decades, even.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Mercedes, IIRC, suggests they will have a "self-driving car" by the end of the decade. I expect an increase in mass transit, and fewer cars. A self-driving car would seem to support various forms of "sharing".
Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can "share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated recharge stations.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 9/24/2013 1:05 PM, Bill wrote:

Not a stretch, GM was playing with this idea some 15~20 years ago with sensors built into the highway that guided the vehicle. And today some vehicles will automatically parallel park.

share a car?? As in leave your vehicle and take some one else's?
I would not, maybe you would, be OK with lending my vehicle to a stranger and I cant begin to fathom the liability issues associated with this arrangement.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Leon wrote:

Actually, now that I think about it, it's a "pay by the hour" system. One takes a car from any designated spot, and drops it off at any other available designated spot. So the advantage is, you don't need to own a car to use one of these. It is expected to appeal to many of our conventioneers. My understanding is that it is being built now.
With regard to your concern, hopefully there will be some quality control! I assume a borrower would be responsible for not leaving french fries and related items in the car...

me, it seems to resemble "renting a car".

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Bill wrote:

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/unlikely-city-claims-nations-largest-electric-car-share
And on a related note (rent-a-bike!): http://www.wibc.com/news/story.aspx?ID 84395
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 9/24/2013 4:54 PM, Bill wrote:

I think my concern would be with someone having an accident and the hassle of filling out paperwork for rental by the hour each time you rent one.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Leon wrote:

just stick your card in, take the keys and drive! Pay by the minute. I think there will be no paperwork once one is "enrolled". Just bills..lol

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.