OT - Where are we headed as a society?

[Swingman]

Hey, don't knock Auto-Tune ... saved many a take in the studio, and the only reason I was able to pinch hit on a background vocal as a LAST resort! :(

[Larry Blanchard]

Guess that makes me inhuman. I can think of several singers that I enjoyed listening to at different times in my life, but I never gave more than shrug and a "too bad, I'll miss the music" when they died. I've never understood the fascination with celebrities.

[DGDevin]

But it can go beyond "enjoyed listening to" for many people, and celebrity need not have anything to do with it. If the formative years of your life were filled with the music of a particular musician or group of musicians then it wouldn't be unusual to have a strong emotional attachment to that music and the people who made it. At times some people take amazing comfort or inspiration from particular music. Eddie Vedder of the band Pearl Jam said that at a very rough time in his life the album Quadrophenia by The Who affected him so strongly that he feels like it saved his life. It stands to reason than an alienated youth would respond to music about a confused, angry teenager, and that such music could have some therapeutic value.

Sure, some people take it too far and act like a famous musician is a member of their family. And when whole industries exist to feed the celebrity frenzy some people are subject too, well it's no wonder any idiot who can get his/her face on TV can become rich and famous (Paris Hilton, I'm talking to you). But on the saner side of the phenomenon are millions of people who have so many memories of growing up listening to The Beatles or whoever that they are genuinely saddened by the death of someone like John Lennon, or in this case Michael Jackson. That doesn't strike me as weird or unhealthy unless they phone in sick at work for a week because they're too upset that their favorite musician died.

[Robatoy]

Thin ice there, Mr Devin. Lennon and Michael Jackson in the same sentence?

[Jack Cassidy]

I believe you have hit the nail squarely on the head! There was a letter in today's local newspaper from a woman who is undergoing chemotherapy thanking the people that have donated blood so she might have a better chance of surviving. Ordinary people, Real heroes.

Jack Cassidy

[Douglas Johnson]

Yeah, but every one of those people would say, "Hero? You've got the wrong guy. Talk to those firefighters over there."

Talk to the firefighters, they'd say "Hero? Talk to those guys in Iraq."

Talk to the guys and gals in Iraq, they'd say, "Hero? You must mean my buddy who didn't make it."

You can't talk to him.

-- Doug

[Upscale]

It all comes down to perception doesn't it? And considering all the idolizing when it comes to Michael Jackson, there's sure a whole lot of people with really screwed up perception.

[HeyBub]

Pretty easy. I, for example, have never listened to a complete song by either Jackson or Lennon (that I know of).

I HAVE listened to all 42 of Mozart's symphonies - some more than once.

But, unlike I'll wager, the Jackson devotees, I cannot tell you Mozart's favorite color, whether his socks match, or the brand of toothpaste he used. My appreciation of the product does not translate to idolization of the creator.

[J. Clarke]

Mozart used toothpaste and wore socks? I thought that stockings were the style of the day and commercial toothpaste that had a brand didn't come along until he had been dead for more than 100 years.

Apparently it doesn't extend to having an idea what century he lived in.

[Andrew Barss]

: But, unlike I'll wager, the Jackson devotees, I cannot tell you Mozart's : favorite color, whether his socks match, or the brand of toothpaste he used. : My appreciation of the product does not translate to idolization of the : creator.

At the time Mozart was alive, he had much the same type of notoriety nd idolization as a modern pop or rock star.

So, to complete your analogy, in a hundred years or two, people may be listening to Jackson's work without caring all that much about the details of his life. Sounds about right.

-- Andy Barss

[DGDevin]

I find is easy to enjoy music from Bach to Iggy & the Stooges. I believe it was Duke Ellington who said there are only two kinds of music--good music and bad music. IMO music is a big house, it has a lot of rooms (even if the contents of some rooms amount to guilty pleasures). I have to feel a bit sorry for those who can appreciate the genius of Mozart but for some reason can't or won't do the same with John Coltrane or Pete Townshend or Johnny Cash. Frankly there are few things more absurd than the music snob, for some reason classical and jazz seem to produce them in large quantities.

That degree of worship by rabid fans is bizarre, but then depicting all fans of a particular performer as being that intense is also a bit weird. I wouldn't have walked across the street to hear Mr. Jackson perform, but that doesn't mean I can't acknowledge how good he was at what he did for a living.

[DGDevin]

Heh, good one. Papa Bach had what amounted to head-cutting contests in the manner of blues and jazz musicians in which he would humble keyboard challengers, in at least one case scaring one out of town. Paganini, Beethoven, Mozart--they were the rock stars of their day, they composed and performed for money and status, and generated intense adoration and behavior from many of their fans. Yet today some folks prefer to look back on their music as purely cerebral, as if passion (and commerce) didn't exist in previous centuries. Talk about unintentional comedy.

[Robatoy]

That's good, 'cuz Wofie was a baaaad boy.

[Andrew Barss]

DGDevin wrote: : contents of some rooms amount to guilty pleasures). I have to feel a bit : sorry for those who can appreciate the genius of Mozart but for some reason : can't or won't do the same with John Coltrane or Pete Townshend or Johnny : Cash.

Exactly!

Frankly there are few things more absurd than the music snob, for : some reason classical and jazz seem to produce them in large quantities.

Classical I can sot of understand. It was originally court music, so the paying audience was rich, at least in the beginning. And today as in the past a full orchestra is just lain expensive, so ticket prices have to be high, and so it goes.

But jazz? Who decided that jazz was more prestigious (i.e. better, more high-falooting) than folk, rock, blues, or electronica? I really don't get this.

-- Andy Barss

[Upscale]

No argument, Michael Jackson was a freak. Just because we believe that isn't going to change the opinion of those who feel that Jackson was some kind of deity. Those people simply haven't had enough experience in life to know any better. It's one of the few things I know of that makes being older an advantage.

[Swingman]

Nova on PBS had a segment with the guy who invented Auto-Tune last evening. Nothing new, just sad to once again see how this culture will abuse anything it gets its hands on.

[Robatoy]

When Cher came out with it swinging, I thought it was kinda cool,,,once. Then Kid Rock was all over it. Now I can't stand the sound of it. You are not supposed to hear it!!!!!

Without it, there would not be a Celine Dion. Fact: she can't carry a tune or hit a note if her life depended on it.

[Swingman]

Agreed. I used it sparingly mixing in the studio to save an otherwise outstanding take where you couldn't comp the vocal for some reason ... maybe just pulling one or two suspect notes into tune ... the kind of off pitch note that no one could agree whether it was really off or not, particularly with I, III, V harmony parts

I probably used it most often on upright bass to correct intonation problems due to both the instrument, and the player. A lot of jazz bassist, even the well known ones, simply do not play in tune, ever!

Of course, this was all done in mix down ... I, and any musician I know worthy of the name, wouldn't waste time playing with anyone who had to use it live ... there are too many talented people around that will waste your time equally well. :)