OT: What is Al going to do for a living now?

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On 7/29/2011 12:01 PM, Han wrote:
...

Well, some of _both_ are self-serving...

Well, I did go and skim the original (at <http://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/3/8/1603/pdf )
It's clear the original article should never have been published as reputable simply by the repeated phrase the author uses of "alarmist computer models". Without knowing anything else about the author or the organization with which he is associated that gives away the bias blatantly.
The original article is much less conclusive; in fact it say "we still don't know, but here's some evidence models need more work". The abstract follows--draw your own conclusions.

I would be more inclined to make changes if those in political positions who are trying to do so hadn't previously tried (mostly unsuccessfully in the US, slightly more so in Europe) to initiate many of the same economic changes to further an agenda. To me it seems entirely too convenient to think they are only motivated by the actual phenomenon but are using it as a lever to achieve goals otherwise unachievable.
I personally think there would be a gradual shift in generation mix and reduced greenhouse gas emission anyway and that it could be accommodated w/o the other political and economic impacts if market forces were left alone (or at least far more nearly alone). Resource allocation by free markets is remarkably efficient; it's when other constraints are introduced that things go out of whack.
Realistically, China, India, eastern Europe and the other developing economies are _not_ going to do anything drastic to slow their development nor to raise the costs of their expansion to limit their horizons--they don't have the luxury we have of being able to contemplate the niceties while they're still struggling w/ the basics. That being so, whatever the US and Europe do will have very little impact globally so we're along for the ride like it or not.
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On 7/29/2011 12:54 PM, dpb wrote: ...

That, of course, is intended to refer to "the article originally linked to in the thread", not the research paper.
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On 7/29/2011 1:18 PM, dpb wrote:

That is where all the knee jerking is making a left turn ... no pun intended. :)
The research paper, by two Phd "Research Scientists" at University of Alabama, under the auspices of same and presented to a peer review journal, and which was the subject of the article in Forbes, is getting drowned out by a hatred of the messenger.
Unfortunate, because it is an article, following established scientific procedure/methods, that is well worthy of consideration in the search for valid conclusions to be drawn from both climate computer modeling, and satellite acquired warming data.
It is imperative that these types of correlations be made and understood if we are to follow the correct path in any climate change scenario.
There is something very sad about the adamant inability to see past one's preconceived prejudices to the actual subject research paper.
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On 7/29/2011 3:35 PM, Swingman wrote:

Obviously, that should be "research paper", not "article".
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AFAIAC the words paper, article and publication are synonymous. The problem is that the manusccript wasn't sufficiently critically examined. That happens all too often in science, either because of sloppy reviewing or (unfortunately) because the authors get a helping hand from the reviewers. DAMHIKT!!!
In this case, the original authors (Spencer and 1 other) are NOT well-respected in their field see here for references to the problems<http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/07/29/no-new -data-does-not-blow-a-gaping-hole-in-global-warming-alarmism/> So I very respectfully disagree with you, Karl. The article(s) are worth only the paper they are printed on or the electrons maltreated by the pdf's.
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On 7/29/2011 4:44 PM, Han wrote:

Not in this context ... the "article" was about the "research paper". There is a BIG difference.

To paraphrase a bit of commentary, "I will take the word of a reputable university over the word of one blog poster known to be biased on the issue. Especially given the nearly hysterical tone in which this one seems to have been written."
> So I very respectfully disagree with you, Karl. The article(s) are > worth only the paper they are printed on or the electrons maltreated > by the pdf's.
As I've reiterated time after time, Han; and what has been my main point has not changed from the beginning, let's allow traditional scientific method practices be the final arbiter of that:
"Computer models, or satellite data. Take your pick..."
Sound familiar?
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With article you mean the editorial by Taylor? Or what? The editorial is terrible, the research paper less so, but even that is considered (apparently) flawed, either somewhat or pretty much.
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On 7/29/2011 5:20 PM, Han wrote:

Come now, Han. Who considers it flawed? ... cite please.
It's only been out three days, fercrissakes ... no time for a "peer reviewed", _scientific_ rebuttal.
All else is opinion ... and we know what that will get you. :)
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On 7/29/2011 5:20 PM, Han wrote:

Jeeeezzzuuuss, how I agree!! :)
the research paper less so, but even that is

"Apparently" does not cut it in science, Han! :)
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Ther are people (and I quoted the reference somewhere) who consider the methodology questionable or somesuch word.
Karl, this has gone too far. I am stopping here. I am not going to do a full critique of the Spencer paper because I am not qualified. I just wanted to show that I had my doubts, and then that there were others, more knowledgeable than I, who had doubts too.
We're under tornado watch right now ... (Bergen County, NJ)
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On 7/29/2011 5:35 PM, Han wrote:

See my last that crossed this ..

Stay safe, my friend!
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Just 2 fairly heavy showers. In between we biked to a local diner for a bit of food. For a change we went here <http://www.landandsearestaurantnj.com/ rather than here <http://dutchhousetavern.com/
Next time back to the old haunt. Both all of 0.4 miles from home.
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Nary a kroket, nor uitsmijter to be found. Nor steak tartar nor stamppot.
So what is so 'Dutch' about this tavern?...eh?
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On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:18:25 -0400, Robatoy

Hey, it's got Dutch nachos, so it must be Dutch. (Do the Dutch even *have* nachos?)
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It's Dutch as in Jersey Dutch, descendants from people who fled Nieuw Amsterdam when the Brits took over. There's many Dutch-like names around here. A biggish local lumber/construction chain is Kuiken Brothers. A local (nice) government guy is Van Kruiningen, another name is Vroegindewey. It's hilarious how they pronounce the names ...
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I don't take the word of a university PR mill at all, Karl. Sorry. Reputable scientists with no ax to grind, that's fine.
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On 7/29/2011 5:21 PM, Han wrote:

Give me one such, Han ... cite please.
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Data are just numbers. They are derived by measurements using techniques, then calibrated and calculated. Finally they are interpreted. There are apparently problems with the measurement techniques of SPencer and Braswell that I am not qualified to fully comprehend.
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On 7/29/2011 5:23 PM, Han wrote:

And S&P are pointing out problems with measurement techniques by computer climate models.
You must have BOTH, Han ... otherwise you have no science!
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On 7/29/2011 5:23 PM, Han wrote:

Han, I hope you know I love you, brother!
You are a worthy opponent, my good friend. And may all our minor disagreements/debates always be in good spirit!
I'm going to get a glass of wine ... wish we could continue over same sometime.
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