OT: What good are the random searches in NY?

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If I was a terrorist, I'd hardly break stride on my way to a NYC subway if I knew that IF (same chance as winning the lotto) I was stopped by New York's finest, I could walk away from a potential search merely by declining to be searched! The police have admitted publicly that anyone who refuses a search is refused entry to the subway, BUT NOT DETAINED!!
Does anyone else see the lunacy of this vast expenditure of time and money with basically a ZERO payoff in public safety? I'm sure the NYPD would mention all sorts of legal issues with detaining someone who refuses the search. Screw the ALCU--let's get tough with the scumbags who want to destroy our country. Logic is in short supply; "political correctness" hampers all meaningful (and more cost effective) ways to combat terrorism. Why are grandmothers being carefully searched at airport screening stations? When was the last time grandma blew up an airplane?? Aaargh!
Rant off
Dave
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David wrote:

No, merely followed to his next terrorist club meeting. :-)

No matter how futile the effort is, the public wants to see its government doing something.

Yes, there are such issues. Much of the press coverage of this plan focuses on how random and racially neutral the process is going to be. I don't believe any of that. For every white grandma searched, there will be dozens of young Arabic males.

You arghed before finishing your presentation. What "meaningful and more cost effective ways" do you advocate?
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Dhakala wrote:

They won't follow everyone home who refuses to be searched. No manpower and totally impractical.

Actually, I think the public wants EFFECTIVE measures implemented, rather than token photo ops.

BULLSHIT.
For starters, don't waste dollars hiring screeners to check people who don't come within a million miles of fitting the profile of a potential terrorist. That change will never fly, due to the whining civil rights bozos, so I didn't mention it before. And don't forget our porous borders. I know the limitations of our government, hence, my earlier "aaargh!".
We'll get to pay higher airfares as soon as all the airliners are equipped with anti-missle measures. And some of us will die during future terror operations. Yet we still have morons who are bitching about the detainees at Gitmo. go figure...
And how come long fingernails haven't been termed potential weapons like finger-nail clippers??
I wanna go back to the good ole days of the Cold War.
Dave
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David wrote:

You really think a lot of innocent people will refuse to be searched, preferring to miss their bus or train to work? This is America, where money comes before liberty.

Well, we'd all love to see effective measures... as long as they don't slow down our commutes. Have you any examples of such measures?

I figure those bitching about detainee abuse are the ones who most highly value the things for which our troops are fighting.

Another of life's imponderables.

OK, go duck under your desk and cover your head.
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Dhakala wrote:

to include cable TV and internet access. :)
Dave
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David wrote:

While you're down there, send us a note detailing how to catch terrorists cheaply.
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Dhakala wrote:

ineffective, that the cost/benefit ratio is out of the ballpark. Negative profiling would be a start. I'll let you figure out what I mean by "negative" profiling...
On another note, not related to your cost question:
I was happy to see the patriot act extension was passed by the House. This current epidemic of terrorism is not a game; we are at war with these bastards and should avail ourselves of EVERY method to apprehend their sorry asses. Civil rights activists can't seem to get their priorities straight--what law abiding citizen needs to be concerned about the broadened powers of the government in protecting them if they aren't into committing atrocities themselves?? GB has the right idea--over a million cameras are looking at public areas. If I'm not a mugger or a thief, why the heck should I care if cameras are watching over the streets and subways? I'd rather know the chances of being a victim of crime are reduced because the cameras are there, rather than whine about how intrusive the cameras are. It's not like there is a live body watching all the feeds 24/7. The images are archived and reviewed when an incident occurs. I'd be happy to see the same thing here in the U.S. Of course I'm not talking about surveillance cameras peering into one's back yard. What's the worse thing you think that the cameras would catch the average guy doing? Picking his nose. Scratching an itch. Whoopee. We already have far more cameras watching our daily lives than you'd probably imagine. Most chain stores have cameras inside and outside. Banks. Workplace parking lots. Airports. Why not extend the coverage to most urban public areas (assuming the cost doesn't put us all in the poor house)? I predict we will follow GB's lead, even if it takes years.
Dave
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<snip>
You'd better hope some terrorist doesn't use a fancy wooden box to contain explosives. You might get a visit from the FBI if you subsequently visit your library and take out a book like "Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Box Making". Even though you're not a terrorist, how would you feel, knowing that your library activities were probably being monitored for an unknown period of time, and perhaps your e-mail and phonecalls, too?
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Doug Kanter wrote:

be subject to scrutiny. It's a no-brainer.
Dave
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Don't change the subject. If you think the FBI's field of vision for surveillance will be limited to books on bomb making, you're being naive.
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Doug Kanter wrote:
e

Dave
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David wrote:

bomb, but I can see that you are trying to make that connection in the minds of the authorities. Rather far-fetched.
Dave
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How old are you? I'm not trying to offend you, but it's germane to the discussion.
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David wrote:

Questioning people for reading books is just plain wrong.
--

FF


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David wrote:

Breathtaking.
--

FF


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David wrote:

It means targeting people based on their appearance. Cops do it all the time to good effect. Searching grannies is just a nod to the civil rights activists.
As for surveillance cameras, they are creeping into U. S. society quite rapidly. All of the park-n-ride lots here in Denver have them, ostensibly to deter thieves. And I don't know what those traffic-light cameras are filming when they're not catching light-runners. :-)
The Brits seem to have taken off their gloves. I see today they ran down a bombing suspect and shot him five times in the head - to avoid setting off any explosives that may have been wired to his body. I presume somebody got a good look at the wires before the guns came out.
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I *hope* somebody had a good reason, and that he wasn't just a suspect for pickpocketing who panicked. On the other hand, anyone who'd mess with the cops in a London subway in the current environment can't be too smart. Darwin at work.
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Dhakala wrote:

Can you show that it is really being done to 'good effect'?
I am reminded of the LA paid police informant who admitted he was giving police random addresses. He was considered 'reliable' because police found illegal drugs or unregistered guns at more than a quarter of the locations he gave them.
Makes you sort of wonder if there aren't multiple motives on the part of officials who want to search commuters.
One of the problems noted with the racist 'drug courier' profile used by the NJ State Police was that it included African American as part of the profile despite the actual statistics that showed African Americans to be under represented (less common that amoung the general population) amoung drug couriers.
It seems the authors of the profile hadn't relied on any factual information they just wrote the profile up based on what they _knew_.
--

FF


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Think quietly for a moment. Try thinking like a high ranking person in the NYPD. You know that this subway search thing is going to generate flak about racial profiling, right?
Stop. Take your hands off the keyboard right now. Think quietly.
What purpose is served by searching a few people who are absolutely, positively NOT terrorists? Hint: There *is* a purpose.
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Doug Kanter wrote:

Dave
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