OT: We the people?

Page 5 of 8  
BDBConstruction wrote:

... snip

Well, it appears that people making less than that in California have had no problem breaking off $2000 (or whatever the maximum allowable amount is) to donate to the Clinton for President campaign. Maybe somebody ought to talk to those chinese busboys and kitchen workers about their money management techniques, it could be quite helpful for this kind of application.
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On Feb 6, 3:52 am, tough guy or gal Mark or Juanita

How did you come by that information?
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Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

<http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/clinton_defends_fundraising_am.html , just one link from an ask.com search for "chinese restaurant workers clinton campaign" This story surfaced 3rd quarter last year and was quickly ignored by the mainstream media
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<http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/clinton_defends_fundraising_am.html ,
Those workers Buddhist? Even their monks have lots of money.
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Thanks.
That looks like an interesting site.
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These sort of shady contributions (proxies) have long been issues for all campaigns and are rarely the fault of the campaign but rather the fault of an unsavory citizen trying to loophole the laws. I dont say this to defend the Clinton campaign because I dont support her and am hoping she doesnt succeed. That said, if this is a scab you really want to start picking you had better be prepared to buy bandaids by the tractor trailer load for both parties and most all campaigns. This is a perfect example of how koolaid fogs ones objectivity.
The likely reason the story fell by the wayside is that the republican party is far more intelligent than your post. In their sleep they know better than to even *touch* that can of worms, much less open it. Its a no brainer. With regards to campaign contribution improprieties, both parties are stationary targets and in recent years they all cover their asses by returning the money as soon as impropriety is suspected. Thats not to say all infractions are always caught.
The real story you are hoping for, and in the way you frame the information, is to somehow insinuate that the Clinton campaign actually told the "backer" (likely the employer) of these restaraunt workers how to get around the limits by giving thier employees $1000.00 bonus cheks which could only be used as a Clinton contribution. This is how proxy contributions have commonly been done in the past. Its so rudimentary its been in movies. Your problem lies in that your information, nor any at the time or to date, was able to make such a link. Again, koolaid fog has led you astray.
What even further complicates this accusation is that many immigrant populations (not just chinese) operate on cash economies, live in communal (low overhead) arrangements, and savings rates can be extremely high. This would mean it may not be uncommon for a low wage worker to have a lot of cash in savings. This is very common in China and Japan where even very low wage workers will buy outrageously expensive ceremonial ceramics or other items for thier homes from savings. They simply have differnet fiscal priorities than we do in the states. However returing the contributions was likely the safer option.
Mark
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BDBConstruction wrote:

I wasn't even referring to the republicans pushing this issue. How fast do you think this issue would have fallen by the wayside with the mainstream media if the name Rudy Guilliani or, 4 years ago, George Bush had been the beneficiaries of such donations?

I'm drinking the koolaid? I think not. The problem here is that this is not the first or isolated instance. Buddhist nuns, Charlie Tri, Norman Hsu -- there seems to be a pattern here.

Again, who's drinking the koolaid now? Alright, given the frugality of this culture, what on earth would possess them to part with those carefully squirreled away funds to make a donation to a candidate for the president of the US? When you are that frugal, you are looking for a return on your investment, how could these people think that anything a presidential candidate could ever do make a return on that large an investment? Note also that many of the people referenced could not even be located. I saw the same excusing article, not buying it.

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Likely just as fast had they returned the money. I personally dont buy into this vast left wing consipiracy philosophy that is commonly aspoused. Nor do I believe the vast right wing conspiracies that the left spouts off about. The simple fact of the matter is that you filter information differently (I would say poorly) when you lose objetivity following strict party lines. People out at the extremes are extremely poor sources of information. They are all wastes of my time, from ORiley to Garafalo, two idiots who are one in the same. Virtually identical. The extremists are what is wrong with the whole process.
I have a different perspective on why a republican would likely be looked at a bit more harshly in the public eye with regards to something like this but I dont feel that it is a conspiracy.

To advance an agenda that they feel (or have been told) will benefit them and their kind.

I have no idea and these very points are likely why the money was returned. An argument in court could easily be made, and would likely be upheld, that they simple felt they were supporting a candidate which would advance issues they felt important. No different than any of us. As to the percentage of their savings, my only direct knowledge of what I said is that I have a background in ceramics. I have had numerous conversations individuals who have had apprenticed for year in the orient, and had work shown in galleries in china and japan. It was very common for these people to comment that it wasnt only the ellite who purchased work at these shows. It was not uncommon for very "common folk" to "invest" in a piece. Like I said, different priorities. And again, not a solid enough position to not return the contribution.
While I dont want to sound prejudice, this "pattern" you speak of seems to me to more clearly be an ethnic pattern rather than a pattern caused by any campaign. Again, I am wary of the prejudice, but coming from a different culture where rigging the system is common place (I could name a few US companies) they are likely simply trying to pull the same sh*t here as is done in their native country. They should be punished harshly. Most campaigns suffer from these issues and go to great lengths to insure the money they recieve is legal. I would guarantee that if you put as much effort into looking into all campaigns, or spoke to the campaigns directly they would all have caught bad contributions regularly.
Mark
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"The Battle Of Leyte Gulf", by Thomas J. Cutler.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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There's a non-sequitor.
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On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:12:04 -0800 (PST), Fred the Red Shirt

Got tired of listening to the wee wee people.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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wrote:

One I just read on the subject, _Afternoon of the Rising Sun_ by Kenneth Friedman. Secondary sources, but a readable narrative.
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Thanks, George. I'll check that out.
I'm reading, "Halsey's Typhoon", by Drury and Clavin, now.
Interesting stuff.
Then I want to find a good one on the Battle of the Philippine Sea.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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A number of scandalous stories about Guilliani have come and gone, none of them stuck, and the only reason the press turned against is the American casualties in Iraq.

The Clintons have a long history of accusations of corruption, especially involving money laundering -- you forgot to mention Hillary's spectacular success in the cattle futures market. Though none of it ever sticks, I tend to think that where there's smoke, there's fire. The OIC didn't send a score of their associates to prison on innuendo.
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Robatoy wrote:

But failed to recognize the proper role of government in even a Christian society. i.e., the power of the sword is reserved to the government for the purpose of maintaining a peaceful society in which its citizens can live quiet, peaceful lives. By attempting to apply fellowship principles to a hostile government, he actually made things worse instead of better and provided an opportunity for that hostile government to harm citizens of his own country.

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When Carter's policies were in practice. Hezbollah killed one American, an embassy guard, by accident.
When Reagan's policies were in effect, Hezbollah killed over 300 Americans in Beirut and his campaign promise of 'swift and sure retribution' has yet to materialize--unless you count assisting Saddam Hussein...
Care to revise any of that?
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I find it interesting that parallels are often drawn between serious incidents and the leaders during their time of occurrence. But in recent history, only once has it happened on US soil. On Bush43's watch. Prior to 9/11 he was briefed by a CIA agent at his ranch which drew this response from Bush: "okay, now you've covered _your_ass..."
Everybody KNEW The Cole was at risk, as were the Marines in Beirut simply by their locations.
Bush blew it at home. He has decimated Reagan's Party as well as all the other damage. I wonder how many Conservatives will go across the isle this coming November.
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Robatoy wrote:

Oklahoma City could be considered a serious incident.

Please, not another truther.

Number of conservatives crossing the aisle? Zero. One doesn't vote for a big-government statist stalinist just because the current person in office has not acquitted themselves well as a conservative. You don't support someone who stands for everything you oppose just because the person who was in office didn't do a good job advancing that agenda. That would be absolutely silly. If the person on the other side of the aisle is advancing an agenda, for example, for the government to take over 1/7 of the economy to apply all the efficiency and compassion of the MVD and the speed of the Post Office, conservatives are not going to flock to that candidate.
Number of conservatives sitting this election out if McCain is the nominee? Probably a big number. It's a tossup who will do the most damage at that point. The only thing that might make a few more conservatives turn out for the RINO would be the greater danger that a stalinist (and no, I'm not using that term lightly, I know what it means and I know what Hillary stands for) with supreme court nominees could do.

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Not an international one. No more than Columbine or VT. Disallowed. You simply cannot have intelligence when dealing with lone wolves/ kooks.

How does that make me a truther? Have you no other defenses? Whenever somebody points out ANYTHING that doesn't fit your mindset, you call them liberals, leftists, truthers or anti-semites. No support for those labels, mind you, but it does make you look silly when you pull out that big brush and start slopping labels all over those who have a different or more informed viewpoint. I guess it is your version of sticking your head in the sand. And by taking an assertive right-wing stance and refusing to debate intelligently, you must be one of those nazi skin-head ultra-right- wing McVay-ites? Do *I* approach you in that fashion?

Those who won't vote are casting a vote for the opposition.
r
PS
Those who believe the 9/11 commission's report to be true are truthers too.
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"I like your Christ, I do not like your. Christians. Your Christians are so. unlike your Christ." ---- Mohandas Ghandi
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