OT way OT but GOOD for Mom!

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wrote:

Ayup. Both guys (dead and jailed) probably won't be ruining anyone else's lives in the near future. And she proved to herself that she can stand up to anything life presents to her, even without her husband. It was a rough lesson, but a good one.
-- It takes as much energy to wish as to plan. --Eleanor Roosevelt
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Edward A. Falk wrote:

Therapy? For God's sake, why?
Who would need therapy for killing a rabid dog? Same thing.

I agree.
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Leon wrote:

http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-26797925/oklahoma-mother-18-kills-intruder-breaking-into-her-home-while-on-phone-with-911-27777235.html
None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's partner will be charged with felony murder.
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On 1/6/2012 8:14 AM, HeyBub wrote:

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.
Asshat lawyers ...
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I don't know. The guy knew that the lady was in her home alone, with a baby. He and the dead dude were likely egging each other on, perhaps (as it states) high on drugs, wanting more (money and/or drugs). Therefore, they were both committing a feloney, and the result was 1 dead dude. The other should be charged with at least soomething, leading to the death of the first one.
I'm glad I live on the other side of the Passaic River ...
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Um, she was a looker and the guy she shot had been stalking her that day. I think they wanted something other than money or drugs from her.

It's common for all parties involved to be charged with conspiracy to murder when a death occurs during the commission of the crime. It isn't often -pursued-, though. Yeah, the second guy needs to be punished for his involvement, but I'm not sure a murder rap is the correct punishment. I guess we'll see. Was it he who got the other guy interested in the woman so he could get sloppy seconds? Maybe it is a fitting punishment after all. I group rape and murder pretty closely as far as heinous crimes go. Rape can taint the woman and all of the people around her for a lifetime, sometimes being worse than death.
-- It takes as much energy to wish as to plan. --Eleanor Roosevelt
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On 1/6/2012 12:37 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

It's not conspiracy to commit murder, it's a crime known as "felony murder." Most states have a criminal statute that says if a person is killed during the commission of a felony, the death is classified as a murder, and every person involved in committing the felony is guilty of the murder.

> but I'm not sure a murder rap is the correct punishment.
That's the risk a person takes when deciding to commit a felony.
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Just Wondering wrote:

Good explanation. Let me expand it a bit:
A homicide (killing of one person by the actions of another) occurs during the commission of a felony, the homicide is Felony Murder. All individuals involved in the original felony are guilty of the crime. Note that the person committing the homicide need not be the felon (as it was in this case). In the extreme, during a riot, if a homicide occurs, ALL involved in the riot are guilty of murder.
We had a case in my town, May 15-16, 1967, where 489 people were initially charged with capital murder (killing of a police officer).
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On 1/6/2012 4:26 PM, HeyBub wrote:

That that last sentence is what is wrong with that kind of mentality of the law makers.
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Apparently it is quite common in the states that when a group (2 or more) hatch a plan to commit a crime, and a death occurs, that all involved except the victim(s) are painted with the same brush as the actual perpetrator.
In NY City a group of 5 is being held, because 1 of them shot and killed a policeman who had cornered him in the residence. The rest were lookouts and/or otherwise accomplices. They are all facing charges of murder of some kind now, although only 1 of them did the deed. He was arrested and let go in spite of a NC/SC arrest warrant, but the down south authorities didn't want to come and get him. Apparently that was enough reason to let him free, damn the judge involved. Oh, yes, the gun used was an illegal weapon.
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On 1/6/2012 1:47 PM, Han wrote:

I think you may have that mixed up with when a police officer looses his life during a criminal act, all involved will be charged for his murder.
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On 1/6/2012 1:47 PM, Han wrote:

I'm in the choir, and well aware of, and completely fine with, the justification for felony murder charges in the above scenario, but you do see the stark difference?
You really have to stretch logic, common sense and reality to invoke felony murder charges in the case I remarked upon.
Again, Asshat lawyers playing games with the legal system by shading what should be the even hand of justice.
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Without being familiar with the specific laws where it occurred, how can you say?
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Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
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On 1/6/2012 4:55 PM, Larry W wrote:

You're kidding right? Logic dictates that if they charged the dude, the state where it happened must have a felony murder statue, eh?
All it takes for the rest of my statement is to be familiar with the common law concept of _legal fiction_, which by its very definition includes defying logic, common sense, and reality.
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On 1/6/2012 4:55 PM, Larry W wrote:

Common sense.
You are riding in the car with a friend, he runs a red light gets hit and is killed. You are charged with murder because you were riding with out wearing a seat belt????
Now do you see the logic?
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On 1/6/2012 6:36 PM, Leon wrote:

No. because (a) the two of you were not involved in the commission of a felony, and (b) it was not reasonable foreseeable that your failure to buckle up would kill anyone.
Now, if you were committing an armed robbery of a convenience store, and the store clerk shot and killed your partner in crime, you convicted of murder for the death of your partner. But for the chain of the events resulting from your decision to commit a felony, no death would have occurred, and it is reasonably foreseeable that your intended victim might try to defend himself. Your intent to commit a felony transfers to an intent to be responsible for the results, including someone's potential death. There's no problem with holding you responsible for the consequences of that decision.
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On 1/6/2012 7:59 PM, Just Wondering wrote:

OK you are missing the point here. I understand that some believe that this falls under a felony murder law and the implications that go with it.
I am saying that it is stupid and because your buddy gets killed while committing a crime is not reason to be charged with murder. If you were not there, there would be no murder. Your being there and him being killed as a result of self defense does not make you a murderer.
You and your buddy go in to a bar, he carries in a concealed gun with out a license and you don't know it. He gets into a fight pulls his gun but gets shot by the bar tender and dies. You are charged with felony murder. Does that sound about right?

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lots of snippage

Even in a liberal state (I think) like New York, they are charging the 4 friends of the perp who killed a policeman during the commission of a burglary with murder of some kind. They were active participants in the robbery, not just lookouts. Slightly, but perhaps significantly different. sorry for the wrap <http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/13/nyregion/at-scene-of-brooklyn-robbery - a-police-dept-veteran-is-fatally-shot.html?scp=5&sq=figoski&st=cse> or http://tinyurl.com/7dmxywd

This is different. The 2 go into the bar to have drinks, not to have a fight.
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On 1/6/2012 9:01 PM, Han wrote:

You assume that they go in for drinks but your buddy is taking in a gun to even a score.
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Well, I wouldn't take a gun anywhere <grin>. And I certainly wouldn't go with someone who is carrying a gun into any kind of drinking establishment. But now you are supposing guy #2 knew that guy #1 was carrying. Maybe yes, maybe no. Moreover, I don't know how excitable the guys are/were.
I thought they were just some drinking buddies who are/were generally peacable. But then, I like to be optimistic about peoples intentions. Which, my ultra-right wing buddie says, is just plain wrong.
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