OT: warranties

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On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:27:41 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"

Most tankless will only give you a 40 degree f rise in temp at full flow as the water in winter here comes out of the ground at about 55 degrees a 95 degree shower ain't warm.
Mark
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When I was a kid, we had a small unit above the sink in the kitchen and a big mofo next to the bathtub. All the hot water (scolding hot) we would need. In The Netherlands, we called those tankless units 'geysers'...like 60 years ago.... Oh.. and my mother used to wash my shitty diapers in a 'front-loading' washing machine..... zowie... modern technology has come across the Atlantic!
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wrote:

One of the features of the geyser next to our shower (when I was near adulthood) was (in hindsight) rather scary. With the water flowing, and therefore the geyser "on", an auxiliary flame would shoot out from a connection near the bottom of the unit. Only about 7-10 cm long nice blue flame. When we noted this unnecessary and useless flame, we shut off the unit and called the gasfitter (there was some company that provided a service contract-like service to keep the house "safe" as far as gas-supplied appliances and their piping was concerned).
The unit that replaced it was 3 times bigger, eeded electricity, fans and better exhausting, and completely separated the combustion chamber from the room, I believe.
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Best regards
Han
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On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:30:22 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

Most of the Europe have water tanks in the home for better pressure, most of the US does not. Read the specs on the tankless water heaters, check at the temp of the water out of the pipe then make your decision as to the usefulness of a tankless water heater.
Mark (sixoneeight) = 618
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"Markem" wrote:

You need fullhot water flow for a shower?
Lew
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On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:41:03 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"

Let see a flow of 8 gallons per hour will give you a 40 degree rise with a tankless. The cost of the unit versus a 12 year 50 gallon unit. For me the math does not add up. But then again here in this home we will replace the AC/furnace and hot water heater with geothermal. All I am saying is do your homework before you let someone talk you into a tankless water heater.
Mark (sixoneeight) = 618
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We have a tankless electric hot water heater out in the back building. Except for the problem of having to open the water all the way initially to get it to kick on, it's great for running the sink.
Tankless units might not be good for whole house purposes yet, but for point-of-use water heating they're well worth looking in to.
Puckdropper
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"Markem" wrote:

Just for funzies, checked a tankless web site.
Chose GE strictly at random since I didn't even know they were in the business.
Picked a natural gas indoor unit.
Specs indicate that at 4.36 GPM, the rise is 77F.
That is a long way from your specs.
SFWIW, across the country, year around, city water supplies deliver 50F-55F water from their underground pipes.
50F + 77F = 122F, which is a comfortable shower, at least for me.
4.36 GPM is a lot of water for a shower.
Might want to recheck your data.
BTW, price is a whole nother issue<grin>
Lew
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On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:04:38 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"

Practical in use data from my uncle who has his plumbing business in Chicago area. GE data is from they're lab, in the field they did not perform as promised has been the experience. A 77 f rise required a flow of 2 gallon per hour or less. At $1500 per unit and a payback of 50 years it does not add up. You can buy into GEs data but they have an agenda (ie selling the things).
Mark
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I replaced the hot water tank (NG), furnace and central air all in the last month. It was time. The water tank had a seeping leak, and the furnace was sadly out of date. The central air had an estimated Seer of around 6, (An old, but very reliable Coleman) so it had to go too. Why now? Well, tax incentives, one hell of a deal with the gas company (Free AC with furnace) and a rebate program to boot. I seriously looked into the tankless water heaters as they are devices which have always made a lot of sense to me--> heat the water as you use it. But not at those prices. The payback would have 55 years. Not to mention the amount of space AROUND the damn thing which I had to give up. They will come down in price, but by that time nurses will give me sponge baths along with my Pablum.
This whole incentive/rebate/tax-credit approach to helping the economy is appearing to help as some of the tax rebated include basic home renovations such as countertops *S*
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"Robatoy" wrote

I've used tankless "whole house" units (two per, one up, one down) in the last two houses I've built. And, it is spec'ed for the current one I'm building, although the owner's are now contemplating a hybrid unit.
The only "whole house" tankless worth considering, IMO, are gas units... the electric units will just about guarantee a 300 A service as a single unit can require as many as three 60A breakers to operate.
The big cost for gas units is venting ... will run you about $5/inch for the double walled stainless steel vent pipe and the attachments ... otherwise a unit will run about $1800 US to purchase in this area.
The units I use need 12" of clearance above and below, and are about 20" high to start with.
I have a SketchUp file of an installation in the current project that I would post, but you it would probably scare you to death trying to figure out how to open it!
<g, d &r>
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Geez, will the glass cover over the electric meter contain the spinning wheel if it blew a bearing during a long hot shower? LOL

LOL Oh he'd need a more powerful puter for sure. ;~)
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If I can do a radiosity rendering on a complex model, I think I might have enough juice to open up a sketch in crayon. =0)
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wrote:
If I can do a radiosity rendering on a complex model, I think I might have enough juice to open up a sketch in crayon. =0)
Well you should be able to get SU to work too huh? ;~) All that power.
I know, I know. LOL
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LOL... didn't you drop 500 US greenbacks just so you can export a drawing in a proper format to the rest of the civilized world?
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Swingman wrote:

Just out of curiosity, does the sun not shine in Texas?
Why not solar?
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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But, but.. what if they wanted to take a bath at night? :-}
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Texas is like saying the North East of the US.
East Texas is covered about 6 months of the year in fog or cloud. West Texas is sunny for 300+ days. South Texas is likely 6 months again.
We get clouds from Canada, Gulf coast region, Pacific south of Hawaii. Fronts push stuff here from Colorado or North Dakota.
Sad state of things. Rats really.
Martin
Morris Dovey wrote:

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Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

> Texas is like saying the North East of the US.
Hmm - the only solar water heater I ever built was when I lived in the Hudson River valley about 60 miles or so north of NYC. I took it out to test on a completely overcast, foggy April Saturday morning and tested with 55F tap water - and got the only burn (scalding, actually) I've ever had from a solar collector within 60 seconds of setting it up. Hurt like blazes and took weeks to heal.
> East Texas is covered about 6 months of the year in fog or cloud. > West Texas is sunny for 300+ days. > South Texas is likely 6 months again.
Something's wrong. Methinks I need to build another one and take it to southeastern Texas for a bit of testing...
> We get clouds from Canada, Gulf coast region, Pacific south of Hawaii. > Fronts push stuff here from Colorado or North Dakota.
Clouds should slow 'em down, but not by enough to have folks taking cold showers.
Which reminds me, Robatoy's little shop "firnace" should be in the process of shutting itself down about now. Have you noticed a drop in output over past week or two, Rob?
> Sad state of things. Rats really.
I think it's an easily solved problem - and from the numbers I've seen tossed out in this thread, worth solving.
Digressing again, I received an e-mail with a video from a couple of young guys in Pakistan who liked one of the solar engines they saw on my web site well enough to try building one their own. Theirs isn't solar-powered yet, but might be interesting to folks in sunny areas who have a use for irrigation pumps. There's a photo and two short videos at
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/Elsewhere /
Wow! Did I ramble far enough off-topic? :)
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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Output has dropped. For one reason, the units are under an overhang.
The unexpected time I really noticed their effectiveness, was when I wasn't even in the shop on some weekends. I'd turn the thermostat down to 8C, walked in one Sunday afternoon to pick up a few things and the shop was 10C, whilst the outside temp was around 2C. Now, by no means is 10C comfortable, it got there without my furnace.

At every opportunity, <G> and please, keep doing so.

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