OT-VIDEO of AMERICAN BEHEADED BY TERRORISTS

Page 2 of 9  


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter, send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You made this up. No surprise. The worst case numbers I found came from a website http://www.iraqbodycount.net . Their count is 10994 and seems to include civilian deaths from any and all sources including attacks by Iraqui insurgents/terrorists, those hit by errant missles/gunfire by Iraqui army, any source that puts deaths above the "normal" for a time period, civilians running checkpoints, etc.
There has been no systematic slaughter of civilians. All were indirect casualties of war. Unlike the attrocities committed by John Kerry in Vietnam where he admits to taking part and knowing it was wrong.
--
Al Reid

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That is not the worst case number, but in fact the opposite. That website lists all the deaths that they've been able to verify through official sources. The actual number could easily be much higher.

Thousands of dead Iraqis would disagree with you.

Really. Have you gone through the list and verified each death yourself?

What's your point? Am I supposed to jump in here and defend Kerry? Good luck.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The point is that civilians have not been the targets. In fact they have been used as shields by the insurgents and the military have been carefull not to harm them.

I spent more time verifying my claim than you did. Just where did you come up with 20 to 30 thousand?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Speaking of evil, what about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians that were killed in the years prior to last year. Where does that slaughter rate on the evil scale. And that does have everything to do with Iraq.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

First off, you're quoting me out of context. The comment "didn't have anything to do with Iraq" was in reference to 9/11. This a pathetically lame attempt at a cheap shot.

I think the number is much higher than hundreds of thousands. No one knows for sure, but I've seen reports of about 1,500,000 Iraqi civilian deaths as a result of the sanctions. Sure, Saddam was a bad guy and killed a lot of people, but not on this scale.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

We've been over that ground before. No civilian deaths in Iraq resulted from the UN-mandated sanctions, but rather from Saddam's policy of putting the army and his Baathist paramilitary thugs ahead of the welfare of the rest of the nation.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter, send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
How naive

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Hey mp, good to hear from you. I'm surprised any of you left tilters (tablesaw refrence) would pipe in on this subject. Would you care to now back up all of your claims before that the war in Iraq has nothing to do with al-Qaida and the war on terror? Al-Qaida kidnapped and executed Nick Berg in Baghdad and then dumped his body unceremoniously for the military to find. What is al-Qaida doing there, mp? I thought this war was unjustified because terrorists are not in Iraq. I thought this wasn't part of the war on terror, but just a power grab for oil.
It is so gratifying to be right. You should try it sometime, mp.
Frank
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

so if we want to bomb france or britain or china, all we need to do is find some al-qaida members in their country? finding them in a country = must be associated with the government? sorry frank. nobody's buying this.
people like frank arent going to answer the 'which is more evil' question because their 'truth' is too shameful for them to just come out and say it. but here it is laid bare. this is what frank and the others are saying in a nutshell: the US is allowed to kill foreign as many foreign civilians as we want, in the hopes that we may get a few al-qaida because the life of a us citizen is worth that much more than other people in the world.
where might the world be today if instead of those nice sterile shots of the missile cams shown through the 90's, we saw the ones where people were running, then exploding? what if the international media showed that in a form as raw as the video of the beheading? how many americans really have the stomach for that sort of thing?
the point is simple. one life is one life. american, iraqi, or otherwise. america truly hasnt figured this out yet.
randy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

We would bomb ourselves then. No, this is clearly not the case and you have to try hard to paint what's going on in this light. Iraq has harbored terrorists for many years no matter how badly you would like to ignore it.

I don't usually answer questions which have such an incredibly shaky premise. But just for you randy...
I think beheading a civilian is the most evil. First of all, I am unaware of any beating to death instances of prisoners. I guess we will see since not all of the info has been made public yet. But who are these prisoners? Oh, I know, they are all falsly imprisoned, right? Only a mental midget to try and suggest that these prisoners are anyone but terrorists and murderers with American blood on their hands. I would suggest that dropping a bomb on a crowded marketplace is a terrible thing. So I suppose we did this at some point to kill innocent civilians according to you?
Randy, seriously for one second just think about this. Who is to blame when civilians are hurt/maimed/killed in this case? The US who has given a year's worth of warnings that we will make no distinction between terrorists and those who harbor them or the terrorists who hide behind civilians, hide in mosques, strap bombs to kids, etc? The truth is that civilian life means exactly nill to those people. Your life means even less.

I agree with you 100%. I also am of the opinion that there is no way we could WWII today with the media that we have. I have not come to the conclusion, however, that we shouldn't have been in WWII.
Frank
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

lets say you are right. im not conceding this point except for the purpose of this discussion. lets say iraq has harbored terrorists. does that mean its ok to kill some civilians over there? the ones we're trying to 'liberate'? the ones who, by definition, arent part of the terrorists or the iraq we are trying to destroy?

im not sure where this is going. im not comparing what the us soldier did to the prisoners to anything. thats another issue.

if you're suggesting we havent 'accidentally' bombed innocent civilians in iraq repeatedly over the last decade, this discussion is over.

man you bought the whole package didnt ya. if a terrorist was hiding behind an american we would try and rescue them. if a terrorist is hiding behind an iraqi citizen, one of those citizens we're 'saving' from the saddam regime, well, sorry, thats just too bad for them isnt it. and if they get mad and do something about it, oh now they're a terrorist too.
if we apply the same standards to the 'terrorists', they attacked an economic target (the wtc) and a few civilians accidentally got killed. whats the diffence? how can we take the moral high ground when we're doing the exact same thing?

if you are comparing wwii to the iraqi situation in terms of 'should we be there', i think you dont have much to work with.
but to bring it full circle, the simple truth is that in the mind of many americans, the beheading of that one person will serve to justify the acts of the us no matter how wrong we are. no matter how lopsided the numbers of casualties are. in short, its just the propaganda the us needed.
randy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Well, Randy, in this world, we give weight to intent. When someone dies because of someone else, it isn't always murder. There are a range of charges from criminally negligent homicide to involuntary manslaughter to premeditated murder. If you're driving your car home tonight and hit a patch of ice (let's imagine you live in Barrow, Alaska) and you hit someone else's car and kill them, do we just send you to the gas chamber? No, we don't because that wasn't your intent. If you want to argue that the military is deliberately dropping bombs on civilians, I'll have to wait for you to post the evidence for that. I believe that the military has gone to great pains to avoid civilian deaths at the cost of greater risk to military lives.
So, to answer your question, the difference is intent. If you want to tell me that the people are just as dead, so it's the "exact same thing", then I guess it's off to the gas chamber for you if you're in an accident that results in someone else's death.
todd
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

i wont go so far as to say the military is 'targeting' civilians, but they are most certainly dropping bombs knowing innocent people will get hurt. and have done so for a decade in spite of the fact that most of this bombing has only served to piss off the iraqis.
i agree there are shades of gray. if we were dropping flowers or food packets and some innocents got killed that would be one thing. but we arent. we're dropping bombs. and hiding behind the words 'we're just trying to help'.
its just so ironic. 2000 or so people died in the trade center bombings and we're ready to tear the world in half. but at least 1/2 a million iraqis have died as a result of being 'saved' by the us and we expect them to just sit there and accept our apology.
randy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Please stop the "we've killed a half million Iraqis" bullshit. I assume you are referring in large part to the UN (that's UN not US) sanctions and the number of Iraqis that died of starvation or some such thing. If you ignore the facts and pretend that it wasn't Saddam withholding food from his people, you would have to lay the blame more squarely on the UN, French and Germans. They were making a killing (pardon the expression) running the oil for food program. In case you haven't noticed, the UN isn't a rubber stamp for what we want. If you have a problem with the effect of UN sanctions, take it up with Kofi Annan.
todd
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Or Buffalo
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The point is not quite that simple, Randy. See if you have the same outlook after you've been dumped off in a hot LZ, or trying to crawl into your helmet with rockets/mortars/artillery exploding all around you, or have g**ks inside the perimeter, or any number of other scenarios too numerous to detail. My take is that the life of the Marine/Soldier/etc. beside me is worth one HELL of a lot more than the life of that SOB shooting at me (or anybody standing anywhere close to him/her, for that matter).
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
xrongor wrote:

Tom Veatch wrote:

I'm with Tom on this one. Family, community, country. The value is highest closest to home. Deal with reality, not wishes.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

im not disagreeing with you tom. but why is it any different for a soldier from another faction? why do you expect them to act any differently?
but the simple fact is, once you're in the hot LZ, its too late for you. you have to fight. which is why we need to make damn sure we should even be there in the first place. the time to think things through is before we send soldiers into that hot lz.

see, this is the crux of the difference. if an AMERICAN chooses family, community, country, its patriotism. if someone from another country does it, its terrorism. deal with reality? i am dealing with reality. lets go back to ww2 which is the last time america was 'attacked'. and that was a one day strike on a military target. what did we do? we firebombed japan and just burned the hell out of civilians over there. but have you ever seen an american history book in public school mention one word of this? of course not. ask any high school student if we ever bombed tokyo in ww2 and most of them will say no. why? because it was a crime against humanity and we dont like that to get out much.
if we drop a bomb on a city and kill some civilians its an 'accident' and those people are 'acceptable losses'. if we slowly starve out 1/2 a million people, thats not considered violence, but an embargo. but if they cut the head off one man on purpose, its the root of all evil. and lets be honest here. if given the chance how many americans would have cut the head off osama bin ladin just like they showed on the video? quite a few i would think.
randy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.