OT: Two parties

Page 6 of 9  
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:48:57 -0800, the infamous "CW"

That's why I didn't shoot the Ma Deuce. A 10 y/o boy was having a grand old time on a big old sled of a gun (like Henry Bowman's cute little Lahti) while his dad went into hock.
-- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw
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Fine. Can you guarantee that everyone who possesses a gun will get that training?
Larry, I will decide what is good for me. Right now, te absence of a gun is good. If and when I retire and also decide to travel all over the US, I might (just might) read up on whether a gun of any kind will be good for me. Like in Montana's parks, or so. Still a wish of mine to travel state and national parks, but I am getting older, so I don't know what will come of that dream.
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Han
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Why should it be? There is no magic wand that a $100 will solve. ...though if it were required to get a license, I'd take it.

Knowledge is better.

Be aware that possessing an unlicensed (in that state) gun is illegal in many areas and only about half the states have reciprocity in their CCW permitting. IOW, because of people like you, carrying a gun around the country is problematic. ;-)
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I figured there was something wrong with my reasoning. Exactly along the lines you mention.
So if a Texan drives up to Montana, what does he/she do with firearms?
Guys, I have been recovering from minor surgery, and that allowed me lots of time to tickle my laptop. I'm going to have to say goodbye for now soon.
It was my pleasure to et your opinions and learn from them. Keep safe and happy!
--
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Han
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Han wrote:

If they are in a locked container he leaves them in the locked container until he gets to a range or hunting area. Texas is one of the states whose CCW is recognized by Montana, so if you have a CCW license in Texas you can carry in Montana.

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J. Clarke wrote:

It's actually a bit more complex than that. Can't say for Texas agreements with other states for their CCW holders and I'm too tired right now to go check their state website. However a licensed Arizona CCW owner could start in Arizona with a concealed firearm, travel through New Mexico, through Texas, Oklahoma, Colorado, Wyoming and then Montana without having to lock up his firearm as Arizona has either written agreements with those states or those states recognize AZ CCW permits without a written agreement. However, that AZ CCW permit holder would need to lock up his firearm if his route took him through Nevada. Same with any trip up the entire left coast (after all, LA is such a safe town, there is no reason a law-abiding citizen should need to worry about being a victim there).
There are some additional nuances to this -- the CCW holder is responsible for abiding by the CCW laws within each state through which he travels. For example, in AZ, a CCW holder is now allowed to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol given that a) the establishment has not posted a prohibition next to their liquor license and b) the carrier is NOT consuming alcohol. This is not true in New Mexico or Colorado however, so the CCW holder must be cognizant of that. On the flip side, in AZ, one must have a CCW to carry a firearm in one's vehicle. In NM, a car is considered the equivalent of a home and one does not need a CCW to carry a firearm in one's vehicle. There are a number of such patchwork rules, so it is up to the traveler to determine the rules for each state.
The NRA publishes a book annually that updates CCW holders on the laws in the various states.

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Rob Leatham
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Han wrote:

How will someone else having "training" make you, personally, safer?

If you are going to travel all over the US then a gun will land you in jail. The only people who are allowed to carry firearms in all states and the District of Columbia are employees of the Federal government whose duty requires it--no civilian is and non-Federal police are allowed by courtesy, not by law.

Why would you want a firearm in Montana's parks? If you're going to shoot a grizzly with a handgun it better be a bloody big one and you better be damned good with it, and there's nothing else there that you're likely to encounter that's likely to eat you.

Girl I know's visited every national park in the country. Never carries a weapon. She does ride an effing fast motorcycle though.
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Nope. HR 218, passed in 2004 allows police officers to carry in all fifty states. See: http://www.njlawman.com/Feature%20Pieces/HR%20218.htm
-- Doug
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Douglas Johnson wrote:

Wonder of wonders, the government for once did something that makes sense.
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By all means, visit our national parks. They are some of this country's true treasures. The good news is that you are far less likely to need a firearm there than in Manhattan. While violence is increasing in the parks, it is still very, very low. -- Doug
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scrawled the following:

Of course I can't, especially re: street sales to gang members. I was offering advice to _you_. Right now, everyone who gets a concealed weapon is instructed before the license is issued. (I believe this is a requirement in all states.) And right now, most people who tell others to get a gun also recommend that they "GET TRAINING!"

You're more likely to need one in NYC (Manhattan), but whatever. Enjoy!
-- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw
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wrote:

Training is not a requirement for a CCW in Alabama (unless the $20 I forked over is considered to be "training"). Vermont has no permit and none required so no training is required there for CCW, either. Alaska has a voluntary permit to allow one to carry in reciprocal states, but no need for a permit otherwise.

...and less likely to get one.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

and there is a bill before the current legislature to remove the training requirement for a ccw in arizona.
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On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:00:02 -0800 (PST), the infamous

OK, then add "almost" between "in" and "all states.", please.

True. What I was getting at is that learning how to shoot a gun is a skillset you pick up which will last your lifetime. Even if you don't own a gun, if you're walking downtown and a shootout happens all around you, you can safely pick up a downed weapon and defend yourself if need be. Without training, a person might never think to do that because they're still frightened of the "evil gun things." Until you think of a gun as a tool, all bets are off. <shrug>
-- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Heh! There was a news report recently where a do-bad got into a street shoot-out with the cops. His weapon of choice was a MAC-10 and his shooting technique involved holding the gun sideways, rapper-style.
Now a MAC-10 doesn't eject the spent cartridges so much as it merely lets them mosey out out the way. The empty cartridge from his second shot stove-piped (got stuck in the bolt) and the police made him holy without benefit of ordination.
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Thank rappers and Hollywood for teaching scum how to shoot as badly as possible.
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On 2/4/2010 1:04 PM, CW wrote:

Did you see that bar shootout video a couple of months back?
Apparently dancing sideways on your tip toes, while holding the weapon rapper style, is an essential marksmanship technique in the 'hood.
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CW wrote:

Me too. I've been accosted three times by what I thought were would-be muggers - twice in a Home Depot parking lot. I reached the probability that they were muggers because: a) They were carrying makeshift weapons, in one case a tire-iron, b) The ignored my command to "Stop! Come no closer!"
All three did, however, stop when I exposed my weapon (pointed at the ground).
All were reported to the store managers. One store manager called the cops. The cop took notes, said I did the right thing, and left.
What you and I did is called a "defensive use of a firearm." Best estimates range from two to eight million defensive uses per year.
Whatever the number, that's at least a million crimes that were never committed.
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Han wrote:

Well, there you are: cops shooting cops. Cops, in fact, shoot far more innocent people per person than those licensed to carry a handgun. This is because, probably, the armed citizen, on the scene, KNOWS who the bad guy is; when the cops arrive, they often have to guess.
The point you raise comes up during the concealed handgun debate. Sometimes it's framed as "What is a cop to do when he comes on a shootout where several people are armed?" In reality, that almost never happens. Most of the time when the cops arrive the original bad guy is dead or wounded.
As for knowing what's good, it's tough. But whether good or bad, weapons are what the people want. Only two states (Wisconsin & Illinois), plus D.C., absolutely prohibit concealed handguns. Thirty-eight states are "shall issue" states. "Shall issue" means that if you meet the statutory requirements for a license, you get it. Ten states are "discretionary"; that is, some official - like the country sheriff - can deny the application.
In my state, a license holder may carry is weapon just about anywhere. The only places specifically off-limits are courtrooms, jails, schools, and beer joints. A license holder can carry in a restaurant, a church, a hospital, the non-secure portions of an airport, on any bit of property owned or controlled by any agency of government (parks, libraries, sewage treatment plants). He can carry his weapon in the state capitol or governor's office.
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