OT: They don't style them like this anymore.

[Robatoy]

Speaking of points.. you get to adjust the angle AND gap on the fly in this Benz.. none of this vacuum crap.

[Ross Hebeisen]

what do you get if you cross a valiant with a comet. vomit ross

[Charlie Self]

Christ. You didn't even have to drop acid to have a bad trip.

[DS]

[Doug Miller]

You've evidently never owned one, then. I've had three. The *shortest* lived one made it to 161,000. [nitpick: mine were Dodge Darts, not Plymouth Valiants, but except for minor changes in trim and chrome, the same car.]

[Mark & Juanita]

I don't disagree with that.

I grew up mostly in the late 60's or 70's and found some of the cars from the 50's to be really neat (but then, I was influenced by "American Graffiti" :-) ) Got to drive a 70 Pontiac LeMans to school -- that had a certain amount of style to it. It was the later models where all the cars started looking like 1/2 used bars of soap (I think mid-70's, early 80's where that really hit). Just about the only way to tell the make was by looking at the label

... on a boar hog comes to mind.

I find the new Ford pickups kind of appealing. I really like the pre-90's Ford pickups; I just really like the clean lines on the late 70's era pickups much better than the rounded shapes of the 40 and 50 era and the squat square shapes on the early 60's models. Even though I drive an 86, I really like the earlier style.

[Charlie Self]

Now, I really LIKE that half-a-bar of soap description. I may steal it. It is dead accurate, though I think you may be a little early on your dating: when my wife and I started dating, she had an '84 Ford Tempo (now, if you want to discuss a POS, that one comes very, very close to the top of the list) that was just edging its way over into soapdom (it was already decrepit and had been since it rolled off the line). We unloaded that for Plymouth Caravelle, which we ran 145,000 miles before trading it on a LeBaron four door, which got about the same mileage. The mileage is more from my distrust of tiny engines than from any real problems, by the way. I just have a hard time four cylinders can haul that much weight around for so long and still be sound. We'll be trading our Stratus soon, and it has less than 120,000 on it. I want to make a driving trip to NY later this year, to see an old junior high school friend and my niece. She's on the island, he's upstate. So, maybe, a Scion. A neat car that lets my wrecked knees ease their way in and out with no struggle.

[LRod]

You actually *want* to be seen in a car that looks like a shoe?

Tied for 1st (along with the Honda Element and the Chevy Avalanche) as the ugliest car on the road. Possibly ever.

[Charlie Self]

Yeah, well, that's a large part of the appeal, that shoe shape, with all the room in the shaft of the ol' work shoe. That and well over 30 MPG...which is why a used one is in order; the '08s are larger, heavier, more powerful, all of which adds up to worse gas mileage.

As to wanting to be seen in it, who of such importance is going to see me that it will affect my income? Otherwise, why give a rat's ass.

Unless you can afford cars I can't, and wouldn't drive daily if I could, style is all in the sense of comfort, safety and economy the vehicle brings to you.

[Robatoy]

I think they're kind of nice in an ugly way. I also think UniMog makes beautiful beasts. Form follows function, I always say..... well... not ALWAYS, but often. Hummer =3D looks good Hummer H2 =3D looks like shit Hummer H3 =3D just plain silly.

r

[LRod]

Remember the "Home Improvement" episode when Jill bought an Austin-Healy 3000 without Tim's approval? He liked a lot of features of it--bucket seats, stick shift, convertible (replace those features with "comfort, safety, and economy") but he kept choking and saying, "but it's...BRITISH!" (a sentiment most gear heads on this side of the pond can appreciate--e.g. why is British beer always warm? Lucas electrics).

Substitute "scion" for British, and you will get my point.

Anyway, it was a funny episode.

[Doug Miller]

No, that's a three-way tie for *second* place.

*First* place belongs to the Pontiac Aztec.

[LRod]

Since there's no way the Aztec (and I wholly agree with your notice of it) is uglier than the Scion, can we agree on a four way tie for first? Or, as further compromise, I'll give you the Avalanche for 4th place and you give me the Scion and Element to tie with the Aztec for

1st. Deal?

[LRod]

By the way (further to my above reply), I think it's interesting that there are at least four modern vehicles to displace the all time ugliest vehicle prior to their ascendancy--the Renault 2CV.

[Doug Miller]

Works for me! Damn, but those are ugly cars.

[Mark & Juanita]

Man, what was I smoking last night? I drive a 97, not an 86; IIRC, 86 had the kind of styling I really liked, the 97 was the new more rounded style -- like the pickup, but the styling is not near as esthetically pleasing as the cleaner lined earlier styles IMO.

I borrowed if from somewhere, I think a comic strip from the

80's, "Peaches" or something like that.

I may be. I know the early 70's didn't have that styling, it was probably some time during the 80's.

I certainly agree regarding the small engines.

[LRod]

Oops. Citroen 2CV.

[Han]

LRod wrote in news: [e-mail]:

That one took me and my bride over the Alps into Italy in 1967. It even went 80 km/hr when going downhill on the autobahn! Trucks hated it when I had to go into the slow lane when going uphill ... That shift lever sticking out of he dashboard! Those comfy simple seats you could take out of the car for picknicks!

[Robatoy]

[e-mail]:

Yes, but you didn't want to have to sit in the middle of the back seat. That tube would carve you another butt-crack. (Aside from it being awfully cramped back there). My sister had a lot of friends at Leiden University who drove these things. That is also where I was exposed to the Citroen 11B, such as the one I started the OP with.

The old joke was, (about the 2CV aka Ugly Duckling "Eend") Q: Why are the door knobs on the 2CV so small? A: So they won't scrape the street when rounding a corner.

The car was very innovative for its day with front wheel drive, opposing cylinders, adjustable headlights from inside, oil/air suspension and great mileage. With the back-seat removed, as Han mentioned, and the roof rolled back (like a old-time sardine can) a Duck could move most of a student's belongings in one trip.

There was a 'wagon' version of it as well delivering a lot of bread and stuff all over Europe.

One of my dad's clients (he is an accountant) had a DS 19 Citroen. That was the smoothest ride I have ever experienced. Bar none.

Now I'm getting nostalgic.... but no desire to go back to visit, that place is like the outskirts of Paris now... totally ruined.

[Charlie Self]

Uh, yeah, except that Scion doesn't sub for an AH 3000 in any way, shape or form, including being British. It is based, or was originally, on the Toyota Yaris, which isn't a world beater, but is a decent, long lasting car. Austin Healey cars were a lot of fun, but not particularly long lasting or decent quality otherwise. Brit cars were like Brit bikes back then: you could always tell where one was parked after it left; there was a sizeable oil stain.

I can understand a lot of the reasons for not liking British cars, having grown up in the Lucas, Prince of Darkness, era for both motorcycles and cars. There simply is no comparison.