OT: Theft by any name is still theft.

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With all the hub-bub over in ABPW over the illegal use of copyrighted material I just can't ignore it anymore.
Theft is theft. You can justify it any way you want however, its still stealing copyrighted material. Would you tell your children that it was OK to steal? Using that material puts the user in the same class as the people that don't tell the waitress she gave them too much in change, switch tags at the store, buy an item and use it once (by design) and then return it, waste time at their employer's expense, cheat on their taxes and so on.
If your character is so easily purchased, then by all means, steal away. The rest of society doesn't mind paying higher prices to support your weakness.
For those interested: http://store.yahoo.com/backissuesstore/shopnotes.html
$10.00 gets you any issue in stock.
Dave
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Agreed. There's no question there. It doesn't make any difference whether you steal from a bookstore or off the net, it's still theft.
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Remember the pawn shop/ebay thread, well this morning one of our number (I can't say more without giving the game away) spotted a truck part that looked wrong in the photo, looked a bit harder and compared details with a reported stolen truck from 150 miles away, yep some bastard tried to paintshop the details out, the authorities have been informed. But not ebay yet so they don't warn the son of a bitch!
Ebay, no thanks, too many doubts....
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So far, so good.

So...you're blaming eBay, for the action of criminals? Will you blame AT&T if the guy has a telephone, as well?
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Try thinking a little more clearly. He's not blaming Ebay, he's suggesting that there's greater possibility of something being stolen because of the anonymity of the Ebay process. Not the same thing at all of blaming them.
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If the criminal element of this country is using ebay as a means to dispose of their loot, at some point you have to take measures to eliminate this means of enabling their criminal activity. Misuse of the internet by an individual to dispose of stolen property is one thing while a business enterprise that provides the means for criminals to dispose of their loot is quite another.
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If they take out ads in the local paper, do you shut down the newspapers? How do you propose that eBay assure everyone that everything listed is from 100% honest seller? I'm sure they don't want to be tarnished and would co-operate with the authorities, but it is no simple task to eliminate the potential problem.
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wrote:

As well as the follow ups pointing out eBay will respond aggressively if someone points out an illegal offering.
Ya wanna blame them for people offering $20,000 for a french fry that looks sort of like Lincoln's profile? In fact they closed that one, then put it back up again. Where's the crime!?
Find a line to draw, in there :-)
James snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com
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Have sellers pledge to the "Scouts Honour" before posting an item for sale.
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They also drive on our roads, use telephones, and the US Mail. All of these are also used vastly more for legitimate purposes.

So, you _are_ blaming eBay. Why not, you know, blame the criminal?
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late at night in a pub. I like bars, so I hope you aren't suggesting we close them because they happen to be one of the foremost places to purchase stolen stuff. Drugs as well BTW.
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better outlaw money then...
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Saying you won't use eBay because of the action of a criminal, is depriving them of business for something that isn't in their control. Punishing party A for party B's action, is irrational. eBay is very good about terminating fraudulent auctions (and the people posting them). Fix the system.
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When Phones are Outlawed, only outlaws...
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wrote:

I hate the phone. I always use the excuse I'm in the shop and can't hear it. I let the answering service answer both my regular phone and cell. If it's important they will leave a message or email me.
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Exactly, it's the same kind of thinking.
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Dave Hinz wrote:

No, not blaming Ebay, they can't help whos selling what, its the not knowing the who and the history of the what thats the problem.
Badger.
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Dave Hall wrote: ...

Perhaps, perhaps not...I tend to think that most folks who would stoop to selling stolen goods won't be honor-bound when dealing on eBay, either. Not a given, certainly, but as the old saw says about apples and trees...
But, indeed, it would be difficult to tell for certain that anyone is using eBay to fence stolen goods--usually, though, in the auctions I've looked at it has either been pretty clear it was personal items or resale of liquidation auction items, etc., or various levels of professional traders. I tend to stay away from the latter as many have onerous policies. There are, I'm sure a lot who are legitimate, but if they're pro's I've rarely found that the deals were worth the hassle.
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That's what I'm saying, yes.

In maybe 6-8 years of buying stuff on eBay, I've had exactly _one_ problem. I don't buy from people with bad feedback from good people. I also don't buy the sort of thing that seems likely to be stolen, I suppose.
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You may have only had one problem, but that does not mean that you have not purchased stolen goods. Unless the stuff comes with a title how would you know (hell, even titles can be forged). I have purchased brand new items in retail packaging from ebay. There is no way that I can know if the guy is a legitimate liquidator, bought a lot at an auction, bought the contents of a storage unit or simply stole some boxes from the back of a truck. I certainly try to deal with up front people, but I have found that the unscrupulous put on a better "honest face" than many saintly honest people do and people selling stolen goods which have a 100% profit factor often give better "customer service" than people making 5% on the sale can afford to give. It's a crap shoot. The best you can do is try to deal honestly and try to give deals the sniff test.
Dave Hall
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