OT: The secret to doing your taxes is

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" snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com" wrote:

Never happen...and it'd be "fair" in name only, anyway...
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Duane Bozarth wrote:

What's unfair about it?
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Unless there are some exemptions built in, the burden of any tax falls disproportionately upon the very poor, some of whom need every dollar they can earn to pay for the basic necessities of life. This is not a problem with the current Federal income tax, but the payroll tax places a heavy burden on those who are least able to afford it. For those whose incomes are not sufficient to permit them to save or invest a portion, but instead must spend it all on simply providing food, shelter, clothing, and transportation, replacing their current situation (7.65% payroll tax, partially offset by a Federal income tax *credit*) with a value-added tax at a *much* higher rate is intolerable.
Some of that burden, certainly, would be eased by the elimination of the corporate income tax, which should produce a substantial reduction in retail prices. [I'd support eliminating the corporate income tax simply on the grounds that it's a complete fiction anyhow. Corporations don't pay income tax. Their customers pay it. It's just another cost of doing business, like salaries or raw materials, and is incorporated into the price of the product.]
I wonder, though, if that's sufficient to ease the burden on the very poor.
What's presented here http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/sketch.html seems like they've got that figured out (and a few other things as well).
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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Oh, one of my favorite hot buttons. Idiots think they are being spared because business is being taxed. Your representatives (federal, state, local, does not matter) want money for a favorite project. If they say they want to increase taxes, people revolt. If they say they are going to tax businesses, they are all in favor of it.
Second hot button. The town wants a new school. Town can't afford it. We can't pay the property taxes. Oh, wait, the state is going to fund 82% of it. Yay, we get a school that only cost us 18% of the real cost. The rest is FREE from the state. Not once do these morons stop to think where the state is getting the money.
We need major tax reform. We need to eliminate the present income tax in favor of a flat tax (exempting the poor) or some sort of Federal sales tax.
We also have to cut government spending at every level. Congress does not have the balls to try it. Ed
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wrote in message

what makes you think that prices will go down if business taxes go away? did gas prices at the pump go down significantly when oil prices went down in the last dip?

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You may find this hard to believe, but I do have some faith in most (but not all) companies that they will do the right thing. After raising prices three times this year, we just notified out customers of a reduction. Yes, it truly does happen.
I'm not naive enough to think that some companies will grab what they can, but those companies are already doing it. If Burger King cuts the cheeseburger 5, McD is not going to be far behind. Coke/Pepsi, same deal. They take turns at being 89 each week.
Most companies try to turn a fair and honest profit, support local charities and are good neighbors in the community. They are the ones not on the 11 o'clock news.
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wrote:

Actually, a graduated income tax is probably the least harmful at every economic level. That doesn't make it "fair" since the rich pay more as a percentage, but in many ways it is the most fair of any proposal, certainly much more so than a flat tax or a sales tax (which works like an inverse graduated income tax).

This, of course, is the real issue. What should they be cutting, though? No one wants the services that they use to be jeopardized, so the elected representative don't act in order to preserve their voter base. I really don't know where we can cut government services without creating a bigger economic burden somewhere else. The old cry of "trim the fat" just won't yield any useful reductions.
If there was a good answer someone would have done it. All the answers are bad in one way or another, so decide what you want to deal with and lean that way.
-- "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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Graduated tax in our system is not very well graduated though. Too many ways around the tax. Eliminate the various deductions and then it may become fair. You could have then a combination where income dictates the percentage, not a lot of hocus-pocus from Squirrley Accounting Partners LLC .
Two problems with a simple flat tax. We don't need accountant to prepare the forms. We don't need lawyers do defend the accountants deductions.

The burden may then fall where it should, on the people that want a particular service. We all want an army to protect us, good highways to drive on, but we don't need a lot of silly mandates, pork barrel projects, and employees in postions because of friends in high places. There can be billions in cuts and no honest citizen would miss the service.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome /






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I'm all for cutting taxes and the cost of government.
The one thing everybody forgets is that for every cut, one or more workers will need to be laid off. Cutting 10s or 100s of thousands of workers from the government or government contracotr payrolls is going to cost our economy a lot until the economy can absorb all these unemployed people.
Brian Elfert
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wrote:

Nonsense. That cost will be more than amply offset by removing the burden of government from the backs of businesses and individuals everywhere. The logical conclusion of your argument is that we'd be better off if we *all* worked for the government. I hope you see that's absurd.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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. The

Don't we already? The percentage narrows each year, in any case.
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) writes:

Of course, not everyone should work for the government.
A smaller government would mean a lot of unemployed people who aren't paying taxes on income or by buying things. In the short term, reducing government spending won't reduce taxes as the number of taxpayers are reduced.
In the long run, a smaller government is a very good thing.
Brian Elfert
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wrote:

Nonsense. You're completely ignoring the enormous benefits of removing the burden of big government.

In the short run too.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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With more money in the economy they will be absorbed into more productive jobs. The US needs more plumbers, less lawyers and Federal drones.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome /.



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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Even I know that if there are less drones and lawyers the USA will need fewer plumbers.
Maybe they can be woodworkers tho...
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
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You are ignoring a few things about the fair tax. First, every taxpayer would keep 100 percent of their income. Second, the tax is only on new goods. One can avoid tax all together by buying used goods. Third, every taxpayer gets a check from the govt each month to cover necessities. Fourth, built in taxes and comliance costs account for about 23-25 percent of all goods. That is simply replaced by the fair tax. Competition will drive prices down further. I can go on and on.
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

No, they wouldn't. The portion of the purchase price of goods that goes to the government comes out of their income.

I have quite a lot of used food that I'd be happy to sell you.

Actually, they get a check equal to the tax rate times the poverty level. If that "covers necessities" then the poverty level would seem to be a bit high.

Huh? What "built in taxes and compliance costs" would be replaced?

Huh? Competition will reduce the tax?
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
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The corporate income tax is a complete fiction. Corporations do not, and never have, paid income tax. Their *customers* pay it. The corporate income tax, and the cost of preparing and it (and, trust me, that's huge), are simply costs of doing business, just like salaries or raw materials, and are incorporated into the prices of the products.

He said competition will drive down price.
If the corporate income tax disappears, every corporation's cost of doing business will drop dramatically. This in turn enables them to significantly lower the prices of their goods or services, and remain profitable. The first one in any particular market sector to do this will obtain a tremendous competitive advantage, and the others will be forced to follow suit.
For example, how many people are going to eat at McDonalds if a Big Mac costs a dollar, but Burger King is selling Whoppers for 75 cents? If Shell is selling gasoline for $1.75 a gallon, who's going to pay the Marathon across the street $2.25?
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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Doug Miller wrote: ...

And therein you unwittingly point out the rub...it's a temporary advantage and the long-term competitive position isn't changed--just reset at a differing level and the cost passed along in a differing guise.
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So what? The point is not to alter the competitive position, the point is to lower the cost of doing business for corporations, and thereby lower the cost of their products.

What cost are you talking about? Eliminating the corporate income tax *eliminates* a cost of doing business. It doesn't just shift that cost somewhere else - that cost *disappears*.
If you think that corporations actually pay income taxes, either you haven't thought it all the way through, or you're very naive. It's just another cost of doing business, and is passed along to customers just like every other cost of doing business. Corporations do not pay corporate income taxes, never have, and never will. Those taxes are paid by their customers in the form of higher prices. The only role of the corporation is to collect that tax from the customers, and forward it to the government.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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