OT - Stem Cell Research, is it ethical?

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It'll take more than stem cells to get Christopher Reeve walking again. As far as I know stem cell treatments don't have the ability to revive the dead.

You are making the assumption that stem cell research requires the use of embryos. This is misleading. Embryonic stem cells are only one source (and so far the majority of that research has been done on the many thousands of discarded embryos from fertility clinics). An abortion is NOT necessary to conduct embryonic stem cell research.
There are other sources of stem cells, such as blood from the placenta and umbilical cord. Cord blood stem cells have been used for the last 15 years to treat young patients with various types of leukemia and other problems. Bone marrow stem cells have been used for the last 30 years to treat cancer patients with leukemia and lymphoma. Adult stem cell research has shown that bone marrow stem cells can transform into nerve, liver, and kidney cells. McGill university researchers have even been able to extract stem cells from skin.
Stem cell research offers a lot of potential to make significant improvements in peoples lives. I think it's shameful that uniformed and morally misguided people such as yourself are trying to deny my quadriplegic friend the chance that someday he'll be able to hug and hold his young daughter and play with her, but most of all to fulfill her dream, of having her dad walk her down the aisle on her wedding day.
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Hold on a minute here.
As you yourself correctly noted, there are many sources of stem cells besides embryos -- most of which have shown far more promise, scientifically, than embryonic stem cells. And nobody's trying to ban research with adult stem cells, placental stem cells, bone marrow stem cells, or cord-blood stem cells.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:31:11 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

No one has banned embryonic stem cell research, only limited federal funding to 20-some existing lines. The governator just got Californians to pony up several hundred million for embryonic stem cell research. Again, there is no ban on the research, only some restrictions on the federal funding for research, so no one is being denied anything in this regard. Perhaps the proponents would do better by contributing their own money rather than promoting falsehoods about a ban.
-Doug
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EXACTLY.. I suspect this was more of a liberal spin against Bush.
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a theory ......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Which is not what was claimed.... ***************************************************** Dogs are better than people.
People are better than dogs for only one purpose. And then it's only half of ofthe people. And _then_ most of them are only ordinary anyway. And then they have a headache.........
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Thank you so much for taking the time to write this clearly and calmly. There's no way I could control my temper and do it as gracefully. You see, my husband would like to be able to hoist the ladder up to the girls room on their wedding day! Just kidding. I'd like to tell some of you guys to walk a mile in my husbands shoes...they're nice, just like new.
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(Jana) wrote:

Is it right, that a human being should die, in order that another might walk?
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote in

    They are far closer to being the same than a blastocyst is to being a toddler. Or Dick Cheney. And I know you know that.
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote in

    I would never make a gratuitous insult about the power behind the throne. If I were to insult the puppetmaster, it would be heartfelt and sincere.
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How many cells does it take before you won't kill it?
todd Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
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wrote:

I don't intend to kill any of them. All I've ever said is that I don't believe any of us has the right to make that call for someone else. Somehow that makes me not only a murderer, but a slaver and supporter of Hilter as well, I guess- though I fail to see how.

Damn, it wasn't supposed to be that offensive to everyone, I just thought I'd add a sig file like half the folks on here. Who cares if it's in Latin or English? A quick google search pulls up the definition right away.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
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From: Patrick Leach ( snipped-for-privacy@intool.com) Subject: Re: Unidentifyable Jointer Plane View: Complete Thread (3 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: rec.woodworking Date: 1997/01/29
<snip of his joinah's description>
What you have is a plane by the Standard Rule Co. of Unionville, Connecticut. Standard Rule was in business during the 1880's, and later merged with the Upson Nut Company, which lasted into the 1890's until that company bailed, selling out to Stanley.
The planes are certainly unique looking contraptions. They never sold all too well, and are quite collectible, depending upon their condition. Usually, the totes are long snapped off since they are so slender about their middle. The lugs under which the lever cap fits are sometimes found snapped off.
The planes aren't made too well, especially when compared to the Stanley products of the same era. Like Stanley, Standard Rule made their planes in metallic and wood bottom models. They also made block planes, which along with the #2 size bench plane, are the the rarest products of the company. The #2 size plane is so crammed with all the adjusting gizmos that the front portion of the tote is often lopped off to accomodate adjusting of the iron's set.
Standard Rule was one of the first to nickel plate the lever caps of their bench planes (metallic ones), long before Stanley ever did. When the planes are found in near new condition, they are quite striking with the contrast between the typical wild grained rosewood, nickel plating, and honking big brass screws.
------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Leach Just say Doing my best to avoid oldtools inbreeding.
Regards, Tom.
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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viam aut faciam

Try to follow the point. How many cells does it take until you believe there is something worth protecting? When does an unborn get rights of its own, in your opinion? Only when it breathes air?

I didn't say anything about your sig. At least mine is on-topic. ;-)
todd
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) writes:
[...]

To bring it back (halfway) on topic: Beware of the many birch trees that fly around in atumn, the many oak trees that rain down in autumn, the many fir trees assembled in clusters known as pine cones...
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto: snipped-for-privacy@physik.uni-bonn.de Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
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Genetically, there's no difference between an acorn and an oak tree. Of course, morally there's an enormous difference between humans and oak trees, and between human fetuses and acorns.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) writes:
[...]

So any law concerning trees should start at the seed stage?

Of course. Trees are a blessing to the world.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto: snipped-for-privacy@physik.uni-bonn.de Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com says...

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

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Doug Miller wrote:

Hmm. I think the question might be: "Is it right that a human being should die, in order that a degenerative condition or a debilitating condition might be removed from the lives of all other human beings?"
Pick one and call for volunteers - you might be surprised at the response.
Consider another question: Is it right that a human being should be placed (voluntarily or involuntarily) in harm's way, in order that others live free?
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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wrote:

Emphasis on the word "might". There have already been significant advances derived from research on adult and umbilical cord stem cells, but none whatever from embryonic stem cells. That's *all* just pie in the sky.

Emphasis on the word "volunteers". There's nothing voluntary on the part of the embryos that are sacrificed in the extraction of their stem cells.

Voluntarily, sure. Involuntarily, I don't know. I think that might depend to some extent on the specific circumstances, including (but not limited to) the age of the human being involved, but in general I have problems with that.
However, placing an adult "in harm's way" (i.e. _at_risk_ of injury, possibly even fatal injury) is definitely not in the same category, ethically and morally, with deliberately causing the certain death of a child whether born or unborn.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

I'm less certain about that than you seem to be. A human life is a human life (and regardless of age according to the anti-abortionists) and, somewhen along the way, I realized that eighteen year olds are still kids - kids with a /very/ strong potential to become mature adults - but still kids nonetheless.
If we put uniforms on them and send them into combat, it's a near certainty that some will not return alive. I invite you to accept your share of the responsibility for that happening (as we all share in that responsibility.)
I don't like it much; and yet I recognize that it is a part of a price that must be paid to avoid paying a still higher price - a price so high that even 18-year olds (still teenagers!) are willing to risk losing all that would otherwise lie ahead of them. Not just by ones or twos, but by the tens and hundreds of thousands.
When the going gets really heavy, we use conscription to force those who haven't volunteered into the same risk. Again, it is foreknown that some are certain to pay that "lesser" price.
I do /not/ feel that one life is more or less valuable than another; but neither do I go into denial and refuse to recognize sometimes lives must need be given up and sometimes lives must need be taken.
I think it /is/ in the same catagory - and I think the greatest tragedy might be the unnoticed end of a purposeless life; and that's not the end I envision for these embryos.
Still, I envy your certainty.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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