steel stud for shop building

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I'm getting ready to build myself a new shop building. for various reasons, I'm ending up with a steel stud design. the finish will be stucco to match the house, and I'm thinking of ways to sheath, insulate and lath without introducing plywood into the design. I'm figuring that with the walls framed at 16"OC I can use rigid foam insulation right over the studs, lath over that and stucco over that. it seems that the conventional attachment for this type of construction is self-drilling screws, which sounds ok, but I'm exploring the idea of spot welding, both to assemble the non load bearing framing and with an autobody stud welder to fasten the framing to the lath. anybody here have a working knowledge of this type of equipment? the stud welder looks like it's meant to be used in direct contact with the metal... can the stud be extended out the nozzle an inch or so, which would allow me to penetrate the foam to spot weld the stud to the stud, as it were. this then begs the question of the length of studs available....
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

The way to go. I did a steel stud shop also. 12" thick walls. All the insulation I could put in.
Ordered the steel precut at 40% of the wood price. All the studs are 10' long/tall. Used the same steel studs for rafters. 12" again. 18' long so building is 20 X 20 outside. Then OSB with 1" foam and chicken wire with stucco coat. OSB on the inside. Windows on the north side only. 5' high so as to not lose too much of the wall. Lathe and mill are below the windows.
The walls are 10' high. Territorial style. No overhangs. Top of the walls are stuccoed and painted with the elastomeric roof coating. This rolls on. It was hot when we did this. So had two helpers rolling the coating and me cutting the fabric that is saturated with the coating. Be smart and choose a cool time for this.
Everything was designed around the other 3 walls with shelves. Costco shelving. Steel door. AC is split type. Outside remote unit is easily accessed from the street. Inside fan coil is high on south wall and really cools down the shop nicely. 78 degrees when I run it. Inside temp never above 87 degrees. Even in the hot summer spell of 100+ degree days.
All steel was ordered to size. Wastage almost zero.
I used screws for assembly. Note they now have a gun that shoots "nails" in. The nails are copper coated and the nails are effectively welded in pace. Works like a nail gun. Only the nails are tough to remove.
There is a site that goes along with this type of construction. A google search should find it.
This whole project did require extra planning but I would do it again in a heartbeat.
For the roof I used OSB again and elastomeric roofing. Easy to do. I live in the desert so snow load is not a factor. Slope " per foot. A drain in the two lower corners. The drains go down to ground level with the 12" walls and exit the wall just above the ground. There is a huge oleander hedge there so they don't show.
As erection of the steel progressed the wind would make different sounds over the steel. As more and more steel was erected the building got tighter and tighter. One could feel it as work went along. Then the OSB really tightend things up. I pre-assembled the walls and erected them with some helpers.
There are holes in the steel for wiring and other utilities. There were no grommets available for this so I used clear viny tubing from Ace. 3/8" as I recall. I split the tubing and squeezed it in place. City electrical inspector really liked it. Big smile on his face.
I used metal 4" electrical boxes that have a bracket on them. HD. Used the same screws to attach them. Then plaster rings as needed to mount the appliances (receptacles and switches). Bought a 125 Amp electrical box that would mount between the studs. Just screw it in place. Fed from a 60 amp breaker on the main service. Gave me lots of spaces for extra breakers.
Could go on for a long time but I am sure you get the drift. Write if you would like.
Bob AZ
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... snip

Bob, if you don't mind sharing, about what did this cost? The studs were cheaper than wood, did everything else come in lower or about the same as well?
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

Mark & Juanita
The studs were about $11.00 each. 12" X 10'. 18 guage as I remember. Maybe 16 guage. Wood 2X12 10' were $18.00. I spent about $4000.00 for the shop including the 6" 3500 pound concrete floor. Concrere was $54.00 a yard then. Year 2000 pricing. I went overboard on the electric and AC. Steel door and frame was $12.00 at an auction. Windows were $54.00 at HD. Custom size. Roofing was about $250.00. Have 10 extra gallons of elestomeric coating for the future. The electric boxes were 14 cents on closeout at HD. Had almost all the electric wiring. Engiineering for the studs etc was $125.00. He made suggestions that saved me twice that. Permits $100.00. OSB was on sale at $4.00 a sheet.
I did all the steel erection myself except for setting up the walls. I assembled the walls on the floor. Some friends helped me set them up. About 1 hour. Screw gun was $95.00 from HD. A Dewalt. Figured it would last for just the job. Still going strong. Found some bits for $1.00 that lasted all day long. The cheap best ones from HD were junk. I got my money back.
The secret is to shop-shop-shop. If you don't like the pricing hold on until you do.
Bob AZ
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Bob AZ wrote:

can you give me a keyword?
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

steel stud framing
Bob AZ
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On 18 Jul 2006 18:41:09 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

You've already got better answers than I can give, other than the fact that my neighbor does metal stud and texture for shopping centers and says that it's the "only" way to go...
Mainly wanted to give my opinion on your "OT" post... how can asking for advice on building a SHOP be OT??
OH... he said that the metal studs don't weld well because of the thin metal or something and you can distort them... and that he buys "metal stud screws" that look like drywall screws but are different temper or something.. Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
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mac davis wrote:

I guess because the building construction would be wood free...
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Why not wood? How big is this building to be? For commercial use?
JP
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Jay Pique wrote:

termites are an issue here. I started out with a more conventional design, but one component at a time started looking like steel would be a good fit.

about 1300 sq ft.

not all of it will be shop, but most of it will. this is a one man, personal shop. a bit more than a hobby shop, as woodworking is how I pay the bills, but as it's at my house, on residential land, it will be built as a garage. yeah, for my big RV... ;>)
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Those little suckers can really do some damage. I was really just wondering.

Nice. I like the size. A cabinetmaker I worked for built a 3200 sq ft. pole barn for his shop and I think it was too big. It wasn't so much that you were walking from machine to machine all the time, but that there was no real incentive to make things convenient, or ergonomic, or "boat-like". Even with all that space it seemed like it got crowded in a hurry with half finished work and repair jobs that never seemed to be a priority. Plus, I just finished a few of Sara Susanka's "Not So Big House" books, so that's fresh in my mind too!

Good luck, and have fun with it. (The shop and the RV.)
JP
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Jay Pique wrote:

Money. Money Money. Wood is too much wastage. Termites. Rot. Simple construction.
Bob AZ
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Can't see welding a stud through the foam as the foam will melt a large hole around each stud. If you weld the studs before you foam, you will have problems aligning the foam against other sheets as you mark the holes to drill or poke through the foam. Screws allow the foam to be fitted tight and then drilled through the foam into the stud.

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EXT wrote:

yeah, melting the foam is one worry. but the <dent puller> stud is a thin piece of wire, and the <framing> stud is thin sheet metal, so the amount of energy applied should be pretty small. it MAY be that the amount of melting would be small enough to not be a problem....
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I don't know for sure, but I like the idea of "spot" welding the studs in place.
Dave
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On 18 Jul 2006 18:41:09 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

<<< Snip >>>
I don't do steel stud construction much, but the stuff I've used seems a little flimsy to use nothing but foam and metal lath on it. Before you get too far along, I'd do a search or two on shear panel requirements for steel stud framing- you don't want it blowing over the first time a big gust of wind hits it! When you do regular stick framing, the sheathing provides most of the lateral strength of the building, and it just doesn't seem like foam would be enough to keep the thing from flattening out given enough wind on the gable ends.
That isn't to say it needs plywood- it might be a matter of lateral strapping every so many inches on the studs or something similar, but it's definately worth your while to check on it.
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Prometheus wrote:

that's the engineer's job...

yeah, I hate it when that happens...

the stucco provides a lot more shear than the foam. drywall on the inside provides a fair bit also. prolly the injuneer will want some cross brace straps anyway.

diagonal is my guess.

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On 20 Jul 2006 21:35:35 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Ahhh. Well, sounds like you're all set to go then.

I guess my thought was based on hanging the lath over the foam and attaching that lath with screws or nails through a layer of foam board. When they're hanging out like that, they're not very strong. No idea how strong stucco is by itself, as I've only put it over sheathing on regular framed walls, and old stuff I've removed from time to time seems to bust up pretty easily. Didn't know you were drywalling, that does change things a bit.

Yeah, or both. Lateral strapping works fine if it's folded on either edge with relief cuts for the studs. Diagonal straps always look useless to me, as people rarely get the suckers tight enough.
Anyhow, if you've got an engineer on the job, I'm sure you've got it under control. I was thinking it might be a DIY job that was by guess and by gosh, and I'd hate to hear about a guy's shop getting whacked over by the first good storm to roll along.
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Prometheus wrote:

I'll skirt the edge of seat-of-the-pants-diy as close as I can. I think the engineer will be cost effective both for allowing me not to expensively overbuild and for easing my drawings through the building department with that all important stamp on it.
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Simething to chew on, a builder in Houston IIRC Perry Homes, built homes with steel studs in the SW Houston, Sugarland area off of HWY6. The homes used wood for headers but the studs were all steel. These homes are doing well 10 years later.
Also in SW Houston, Hawthorn Suites a hotel chain, was building a 2 story hotel and was in the process of adding the roof. At the time no interrior or exterior covering had been attached to the walls. We had a small front blow through and the whole structure folded and came down. All wood construction and at least one person was killed. The whole site had to be cleared and started from the foundation.
As you stated, the wall covering material adds the strength. The home builder used sheet rock as he would have had he been using wood studs.
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