The threat of icy weather has already shutdown the south. I was in Tuscaloosa about 3:00pm and they were already stores closing up shop(even blue borg at 4:30),apparently this was to give the employees a chance to join the run on bread, milk and batteries. :)
basilisk
It always amazes me how the South is absolutely shut down by snow. But when you really get any measurable amount every twenty years or so, there's no preparation or contingencies for it, and no one knows what to do except for visiting damn Yankees. Then, if all goes well, it's thawed and gone in a couple of three days.
Steve
My employer has already called tomorrow and my wife's has delayed opening until 11:00. Last year when this happened, like a fool, I showed up without calling the phonemail system first. Like last year, not as much as a drop of rain has fallen and it's 36F (up two degrees since noon).
Yeah, I saw the same loony mentality when I lived in NY (less so in VT). Don't these people have enough bread, beer, and batteries to last one day? At least they have some reason to worry here. They've never seen the stuff. ;-) One of the Montgomery "hawk show toasts" has the "Live in Fear Doppler Radar" for such events. He was warning of the coming calamity Friday during the evening drive.
Even us "damn Yankees" know enough to stay off the highways when the rebels around here try to drive on ice. ;-) ...and they will. :-(
"Steve B" wrote > It always amazes me how the South is absolutely shut down by snow. But when
I am originally from Ohio, near the lake, and for my first 27 years, drove in snow all the time without worry.
I moved South, and also laughed at how everyone panics with a little snow. Then in about year three, I had a lesson presented to me that made me understand why it is as it is.
I had to stop on a little hill at an intersection, with a slope of a little more than 1/2" per foot rise. I was only barely able to get moving again.
In the South, winter weather often starts as freezing rain, changing to snow. That is nearly impossible to find any traction on that stuff when it is frozen on the road. They do not have salt or enough equipment to get it on all of the back roads quickly, so you have roads in neighborhoods that are nearly impassible.
So, the snow is different. It really is. Also, another factor around here is that the country roads have no guard rails protecting a 50 foot or more plunge, if you slide off a corner. The lawyer mentality keeps schools from sending out students in busses on those type of roads if they are slick..
I recall a few weeks ago the largest City in the US in the Northeast shut down for almost a week. Never remember these problems when I was a kid living in NJ and getting tons of snow. Maybe it has something to do with folks not doing their jobs. Also remember living in Georgetown, Co. getting
30 inches a night, (not uncommon) and having to drive to the Ski area where I worked so we could get the parking lots cleared before the morning rush of skiers. Think everyone has turned to PUSSY'SBesides the icy roads, our Louisiana idiots also try to drive with bald tires.... going for more beer, I suppose.
Sonny
It's funny how many northerners don't realize just how much of the ease with which they travel after a snowfall is the result of the sand trucks and not of the excellence of their driving skills.
When I was at Georgia Tech there was an ice storm, and my GF was stuck at work. I went to get her, got a block, said "screw this" went back to the apartment, and dug out my studded snow tires from when I went to OSU, put them on and went to pick her up.
I came to an intersection. A guy on the cross street creeps up to a stop sign at the top of a hill, tries to stop, can't, coasts through the intersection and on to the downhill side, and once he's going downhill the only way he's going to stop before he gets to the bottom is with rocket assist. Well, a minute later another guy did the same thing. And by the time the traffic cleared enough for me to go through the intersection there were IIRC seven cars piled up at the bottom of the hill. I walked down on the shoulder (no way I was going to put the car on that hill and get it creamed by the next guy who came down) and made sure nobody was hurt then went on, picked up the GF, and called the cops to go rescue the folks at the bottom of the hill (this was before cell phones).
Seriously, in the South if it snows and you don't have studs, the best thing to do is stay home.
When I lived in VT they didn't use *any* sand (it tends to freeze solid). When it gets really cold salt doesn't work, either. Packed snow is easy to drive on, though. Forget ice, no matter where you live.
...and they're banned in a lot of Northern states. I didn't like them because my car would skid all over on wet pavement.
An immovable object works.
Even if you do, stay home.
Yep. It snows about a quarter-inch here in Houston every ten years or so. People stock up on canned goods, the freeways, schools, and airport are shut down, people huddle in their family rooms and pray, church pews fill up, children scrape the snow off of car hoods, make six-inch tall snowmen and call them good. The city flings sand on the streets, along with ashes, sawdust, corn stalks, sheets of plywood, and anything else it can find. The mayor has a press conference every thirty minutes to remind residents to tune in CONELRAD on their AM radios.
On the other hand, as soon as a hurricane enters the Gulf, visitors from the northern climes look down and say: "Feet! Make tracks!" Natives stock up on beer and Strawberry PopTarts in anticipation of all the block parties.
I have to wonder what kind of sand, salt and cold are you referring to? A number of times over the years, I've experienced weather in Toronto where the temperature has been -20F and that's before the wind chill was been factored in. As long as the streets aren't too mushy or clogged with snow, salt and sand have worked fine for the most part.
Salt lowers the freezing point of water. In general it doesn't work well below 15 degrees F although heavy traffic helps. See:
I've heard that information before although it doesn't change the basis of my comment since I've always believed its main value in winter time was as a boost for traction. Essentially, I'm asking what's different (or worse as was suggested) about winter and roads in this case in Vermont?
All I know is what that salt does to an auto or use to do since I havent lived in an area that uses it anymore. In Colo they use to use cinder don't remember them using much salt. When living in NJ salt was the only thing used and I remember cars with rusted holes the size of basketballs. Living in Southern Ca. the sun keeps the roads clear.
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Also, particularly the farther south one is, the more likely that the ground is yet warm even though air temperatures drop when it does snow. Consequently, rather than the fallen snow staying snow as it does in cold climates and therefore actually providing decent traction when packed, the combination of relatively warm ground/roads and weight of the first vehicles over it causes it to melt and then it becomes the icy layer even if there wasn't freezing rain/drizzle first. The snow itself isn't any different but the weather and resulting road conditions certainly are in general. Terrain as noted is a factor as well; much of those lake snow areas is essentially flat; it's hard to find a flat spot big enough for the cat in much of the southeast...
Probably the fact that even the City if Buffalo tries to emulate Toronto's snow clearing capabilities and quite often calls on Toronto for help.
Yep,
Last night we ended up getting about 3/4 inch of accumalated sleet, slick melting mess, I made it into work without any issues but many didn't. It helps to be among the first on the roads before it really gets packed.
basilisk
Different snow?....buloney! The pavement is warm under the first snow and makes it a bit icy underneath...the worst combination of surprise.
It's the skill of the driver and the sharpness of the snow lug (I know. "what the heck is a snow lug?" on the tires that are the key factors in snow driving. Salt isn't used in sme parts and doesn't work in much of the colder winter weather.
Here you put on a decent tire, one that won't perform on a drag race track, a new set on the front, every year, and you are fine with a little practice. Oh yeah, you have to not be drinking Jim Beam as you drive, either.
I just LOVE those people with their new AWD or 4WD vehicles just zooming along in the snow. Yes, better traction and acceleration than everybody else...but the idiots do not seem to know that they have no advantage when it comes to stopping.
For my kids? No SkidSkool, no keys. The full program.
All that sand and salt is murder on the infrastructure. It is not just the cars that get damaged. If you have to, a little sand.... and SLOW DOWN!!
Except for the big one where Toronto didn't get paid.
I wonder if T.O. got paid in the end or helps out anymore.
Toronto is not well equipped, when it comes to big snow, either, and has had to call in the military for help.
"Nova" wrote in message news:4d2b216b$0$19699$c3e8da3$ snipped-for-privacy@news.astraweb.com... Probably the fact that even the City if Buffalo tries to emulate Toronto's snow clearing capabilities and quite often calls on Toronto for help.
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