OT Someone in Power with BALLS !!!!

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On 5/9/2010 1:58 PM, Evodawg wrote:

Indeed, it's like picking up after children on a job site these days.
Certainly not every crew is like that, but enough are to make a strong generalization based in reality, especially when you do the picking up.
There is no doubt that with the advent of a mostly hispanic work force a bigger part of my day is spent policing a construction site ... seems it's mostly based on the cultural mores where you come from, where picking up your own mess is simply not a part of your upbringing or considered important ... but working your butt off _is_ important, and that they do better than most. Although I suspect that some of the mess is intentional and based on La Raza attitudes.
Hell, I'll begrudge you cleaning up a bit of a mess for a full day of the kind of work that you won't find most raised in this country doing cheerfully.
All the above notwithstanding, and here's another generalization for you: these are some of the most _personally_ clean folks I've ever worked with.
Ride to the job site with most of a morning, in the confines of a truck cab, and what you smell is a strong bath soap and clean clothes ... not something you generally find with some other "cultures", including my own, that I've had the nose displeasure of working with.
My tuppence, YMMV, FWIW ... but I mostly live the experience daily.
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Dunno. Drive around Southwest Virginia and note the roadsides. Crap everywhere. Hang around with some rednecks for a bit, and discocver that the trash comes from them, because their damned vehicle floors are too full of junk to take any more. It isn't the illegals, the few we have, nor is it the African Americans, at least no larger a percentage than it is the whites.
Shitheads abound in every race and culture and always have, probably always will.
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On Thu, 13 May 2010 11:22:23 -0700 (PDT), Charlie Self

You got that right. The apartment building I live in has one small 4'x3' incinerator room with a drop chute on every floor. There's a big sign with instructions (and graphics example for those who have use a different language) that says to put all garbage down the chute.
Yet, several times a month when I go to drop my garbage, there's full garbage bags sitting on the floor. They carry it to the chute, why can't they drop it down the chute?
My theory is that it comes down to pride, pride of where you live and pride of how you live. Despite that, I know some (many) people are pigs at heart (which in reality is an insult to pigs). I'm tempted to go through some of these garbage bags, find out which apartment they came from and dump the contents in front of their apartment door. Realistically, I know though that the apartment cleaning staff are the ones that will end up cleaning up a mess like that.
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On Sun, 09 May 2010 08:50:35 -0500, Steve Turner

Right. Just enforce the existing laws, damnit. And where the hell is Homeland Security during this? Spouting that our borders are safe. Methinks they have Cranial Rectal Inversion disease.
-- The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care of the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease. -- Thomas A. Edison
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<snip>

AMEN! What part of "Illegal alien" is incomprehensible?
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Tolerance?
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I'm surprised. Your level of tolerance is admirable. As I said, "YMMV".
Max
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wrote the following:

I believe you misspelled "lamentable", Max.
Calilfornia schools, courts, prisons, MediCAL, and hospital ERs are all sinking under the weight of the illegals, yet Lew is saying that all is just peachy in HelL.A. You see that as admirable?
-- The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care of the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease. -- Thomas A. Edison
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"Max" wrote:

-------------------------------------------------- It has nothing to do with tolerance or lack of it for that matter.
It has to do with reality.
Many if not most of the people who come to the USA legally or otherwise, come here for a better life.
They start at the bottom, do the jobs that no one else wants to do, often for wages no one else will accept, and in the process find a way to send money back home to relive the poverty of family members they left behind.
What we are seeing today with all this illegal immigration hullabaloo is out right fear.
For the first time in almost 400 years, white people are about to loose their majority status in the USA and they are scared shitless of what is going to happen.
The switch to minority status is going to happen, it's just a matter of when.
Don't want too many people coming across the USA border, eliminate the incentives to come here.
Start by getting a handle on the drug problem.
Secure the existing borders, both north and south.
Establish meaningful work visa programs.
No. I'm not particularly tolerant, just a realist.
Of one thing I am certain, we are all in this thing called life together and nobody has yet gotten out alive, so we best learn how to get along.
As my departed mother often said, "Never yet saw a U-Haul following a hearse."
Lew
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I just knew that we would find common ground. I agree with everything above. We have a large Hispanic population in El Paso. The latest figure I'm aware of is somewhere around 80%. Most of these folks have adapted to the "American way"; they've become acculterated. They take care of their property and, in fact, often put the Gringos to shame. They are industrious and ambitious. Many have successful businesses. I think you get the idea. Having said that, there is a recent influx of *illegals* who come here only because of the "safety net" they've heard about from other illegals. They bring their culture (some characteristics of which others have mentioned) and demand "rights" that are not even accorded to *citizens*. They resent authority because of the abuse of it in their own country. They depress the wages that are already considered below the poverty level for basic labor. I don't "fear" the minority becoming the majority. I resent the likelihood that our culture will change rather dramatically. A recent poll taken here revealed that 56% of El Pasoans were in favor of the Arizona law. That tells me that even the Americans of Mexican ancestry are opposed to "free borders".
Oh, by the way, I'm not concerned about needing a U-Haul behind my hearse. I intend to die broke. But in the meantime I resent having to help support illegal residents. I worked far too hard and for too long to acquire the standard of living to which I have become accustomed.
Max
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25 years in San Diego. Family house in Baja California.
The sentiments in the OPs chain e-mail nauseate me.
Odd. We TOOK the SW from the Mexicans (Treaty of Guadelupe), by force and coercion. They were here first.
Odd there are still so many signs of their culture, huh ?
If you don't like illegal immigration, then ... clamp down HARD on the (primarily) white capitalists profiting from their exploitation.
We've never won ANY war on supply. Go after demand.....
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Neil Brooks wrote:

Took? We beat them fair and square in armed conflict!
Is there some part of "loser" that you have trouble with?

Capitalism is not the cause of the problem. In fact capitalism could be the solution (if the government would get out of the way).
The "problem" with illegal aliens, unemployment, and a host of other difficulties can be easily fixed with the stroke of a pen, saving literally billions in tax money too boot!
Simply repeal the minimum wage laws.
I think contractors would rather have someone who can work a tape measure marked in inches or someone who can puzzle out the statement "Hie yourself and your colleagues to the after-end of the Tahoe and disembark the victuals."
We've got 15 million illegal aliens and 15 million jobless. Maths is hard, but most can see the connection.
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On 5/9/2010 8:59 AM, Neil Brooks wrote:

Really? You mean the Spaniards didn't conquer the indigenous people that came before them and take that land for their own?
We took the land that once belonged to the Mexicans, and now they want it *back*, along with the good life we're living on the land that was once theirs. And guess what? We're letting them! We're "tolerating" it. What's taking place is nothing short of an invasion of one country on the part of another, except that it's not a top-down government-backed military invasion but a grass roots invasion of stealth and perseverance on the part of a downtrodden people. And who can blame them? Who would want to stay there when we're just LETTING them come here?
I have many friends with many deep ties into Mexico. I've heard too many stories of a growing envy and jealousy within their country of the good life we have on the land we stole from them. If you think there aren't millions of people in thousands of desolate little communities all wishing and hoping and talking about getting their own form of revenge against America, think again. There's a whole movement out there to infiltrate our country, and they don't need their government to fight their battle for them; we've given them all the tools they need.

Ah yes, those EVIL capitalists! If it weren't for them we wouldn't have any illegal immigration...
And who has the authority to do the "clamping down"? Oh right, the government. But with what resources? And how effective is that really going to be? Assuming that *could* be successful, what becomes of the "undocumented residents" in the aftermath of their lost "employment opportunities"? Do you think they're just going to go back to Mexico of their own accord? Aren't they victims now, and aren't we responsible for their well being since we just put them out on the street without a job? And don't we still have the problem of needing to apply *more* resources to stop the incoming flow of illegal immigrants?
Wait a minute, what if there *weren't* any illegal aliens to begin with (oh I'm sorry; "undocumented residents") to feed the employment needs of the evil profiteering (primarily white) capitalists? Wouldn't those capitalists have to resort to becoming law abiding citizens once again by hiring regular law abiding citizens? And what if they weren't further bound by that stupid "minimum wage" law? Would they then be able to offer their services at a price Americans are willing and able to pay? No, I didn't think so...
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Yup, that's pretty much how it works. No jobs = not too damn many illegal immigrants, 'cause they don't come to America just for laughs. You can walk through any meat packing plant and hear almost nothing but Spanish, are we supposed to believe the management at that company had no idea most of their workers are not legal residents? That's not even a good joke.

The Obama administration has expanded a Bush admin pilot program to identify and deport illegal aliens who end up in jail, even San Francisco is going along with it. So yeah, when the govt. actually *tries* it turns out sometimes it is effective.

What part of deported don't you get?

And your solution for bringing this about would be exactly what?

You seem to be under the impression that putting phrases in "quotation marks" conveys some meaning other what quotation marks are supposed to be used for, could you explain what it is?
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On 5/10/2010 6:41 PM, DGDevin wrote:

How telling that you completely snipped my preceding explanation of a completely different reason why Mexicans are coming here illegally, and you choose instead to focus instead on the Evil Capitalists. Never mind that the minimum wage and other bureaucratic red tape prevents American companies from competing in the global economy and making a profit using legal American workers. We must spend government resources to punish them (and probably drive them out of business) for hiring the very illegals we can't keep out of the country because we don't have the balls to treat this problem for what it really is: An invasion.

So? They're doing what it takes to stay in business. They're hiring people who are willing to work for the wages that allows them to stay competitive.

Oh right, that will make a huge dent in the problem. That's like stepping on cockroaches you can actually *see* and thinking you've killed them all.

Using the plan you outlined above? LOL! What about the 95% who haven't done something obviously stupid and gotten thrown in jail? There's all the rest of your cockroaches right there.
So after we've spent all the money on the "clamping down" program and taken away all their employment opportunities (and driven the Evil Capitalists out of business), to get the remaining 95% that weren't thrown in jail we'll have to spend how much more money to track them all down and get them deported? You've got to FIND them first!

Securing our borders, of course! Imagine each and every one of those illegal invaders were visibly ARMED as they entered the country. Suddenly, this changes to a military situation, and we're talking numbers that are on par with a full-scale military invasion, correct? Wouldn't we then be justified and compelled to take military action to prevent the invasion? WE ARE BEING INVADED - what difference does it make whether the intruders are visibly armed or not? Why is it that the seemingly "peaceful" nature of the invasion causes us to lay down our guns and turns us into a bunch of tolerance pansies?
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Correct, I didn't join you in your absurd fantasy about Mexicans et al. being part of a deliberate invasion. I wonder how many of those guys in the Home Depot parking lot know that *really* they're part of an invading army, not men looking for day-labor jobs in landscaping or construction? You can't get a better secret plan than one in which even the participants don't know they're part of it, can you. How about those European illegal workers on the east coast--Poles and Hungarians and so on, taking construction jobs away from Americans since they work off the books and don't need workers comp and so on--are they part of the plot too?
Yeah, there are radicals who make fiery speeches about the "reconquista"--but the people who run the border are here looking for work, not as part of a political movement.

Would you like to try living on minimum wage, much less a lower rate of pay? No? Kind of ironic for you to suggest others should, isn't it.

Please outline the scenario in which these companies have no choice but to hire illegals--other than a shortage of Americans willing to do those jobs. You feel compelled to defend these corporations, yet in so doing you in effect admit they're part of the problem because they hire illegal workers who according to you are part of an invasion. You can't have it both ways, at least not if you want to maintain any sort of credibility.

Let me get this straight--those packing plants managed to operate at a profit for most of the nation's history with legal workers, but suddenly the only way they can stay in business is to hire illegal workers? If every meat-packing company were forced to hire Americans, surely that would remove any competitive advantage one might get by hiring cheaper illegal workers, would it not? Of course that would mean those pork chops on your plate would cost you a bit more.
If Americans won't fill those jobs, that seems like a guest-worker program such as Bush 43 proposed early in his Presidency would be a good idea. There have been such programs in the past, there is no reason to think they won't work again.

So first you complain the govt. does nothing, then shown that the govt. is doing something you complain it won't work. Some people get off on the very act of complaining, it keeps them off the streets I suppose.

A) I didn't outline a plan, I mentioned one govt. action. B) This brings us back to going after employers since that is where you'll find illegal workers in large numbers, that part seems to have dropped out of your short-term memory. And C) you like to compare illegal aliens to cockroaches for some reason, why is that?

Good grief. "Imagine" something that isn't real, and then act as if it were. Man, what color is the sky on your planet?

Too funny. You're outraged at what it would cost to find and deport illegal aliens, but now you want to spend untold billions to fortify the borders and line up troops there. The phrase "cognitive dissonance" comes to mind.
BTW, I have no problem with illegal aliens being deported (starting with the hardened criminals), I'd like to see a more secure border and so on. But that doesn't stop me from seeing the root cause of illegal immigration, and that is the availability of *jobs* for those people. When I hire someone I collect multiple documents proving they're citizens and write down the numbers on a govt. form. But guess what? The govt. doesn't even cross-check to make sure the S/S security on that form actually belongs to the person named as being hired! Does that strike you as a serious loophole in the system? Doesn't it seem like in the computer age that would be an easy check to do?
Illegal workers are here because industry wants them here, companies like the cheap labor, and apparently Americans like the cheap food etc. resulting from that cheap labor. The last time there was a big immigration crackdown, strawberry farmers in Washington state had to plow under their crops because they couldn't find pickers. So if *you* don't mind paying more for strawberries, okay, let's hire Americans to do that work (at higher wages, with workers comp and so on) and everybody is happy. Except you won't be happy, you'll be bitching about the price of strawberries.
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DGDevin wrote:

Whether someone can 'live' on the minimum wage is irrelevant. If that's all the job's worth, that's all the job's worth.

I don't think it's so much Americans aren't "willing" to do the job - it's that the employer's can't afford them. There's a big difference between a Mexican willing to work for ten dollars an hour and an American. For the American, there's an additional 20% or so of overhead (Social Security contribution, unemployment and worker's comp insurance, a not-inconsiderable amount of paperwork, etc.). For the Mexican, it's ten bucks and hoista-ya-legga.
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On 5/12/2010 11:55 AM, DGDevin wrote:

keep up, especially since I've been ill and my job has flat-out overwhelmed me, so I scarcely have the energy to pick apart your lengthy response and I'm inclined to just say "you win", but I still have a few points I'd like to make.
I wouldn't have argued that the easy availability of jobs isn't the only reason for illegal immigration if I didn't have at least *some* evidence to back it up. I know a LOT of people with direct ties into Mexico (Austin isn't very far away), and I've listened to way too many first-hand accounts to arrive at your conclusion that they're all just here for the jobs. You do know that a great many countries don't have much love for America, right? Do you think that Mexico loves America? The pre-9/11 days of an "invincible" America are gone. Arguably, that blatant act of terrorism could have been prevented, but we were complacent and ignored the warning signs. Are there other warning signs we're ignoring? How many other (perhaps subtle) ways can America's security be undermined? Should we really be anything less than completely paranoid about the motives of *anyone* who is here illegally, regardless of what country they're from?
--
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Yup, there is no problem finding illegal aliens, just go to any meat packing plant, any large agricultural operation, most construction sites and so on. The govt. largely doesn't do that because the industries which profit from that cheap labor don't want the govt. messing up their business. Get rid of the employment opportunities and illegal immigration pretty much disappears.
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wrote the following:

Well told, sir. I hail from Vista, CA, 50 miles north of the Mexican border at Tijuana. Mariachi music and heated Spanish-language arguments from the apartments next door got so loud that I seldom opened my windows for fresh air. My legal Mexican friends dislike the total crap illegals are pulling, too.
In the 27 years I lived in that house, 1 white guy and 3 different illegal Mexican immigrants broke into (or attempted to break into) my house. The reason I know this is that all were caught.
I've dated girls of British, Guatemalan, Mexican, Jewish, German, Polish, etc., and Heinz 57 (like me) descent. Color and nationality don't deter me from pursuing a fun and pretty girl. People of the world are all from one race: human. We're all pink inside, too. :)
Lew has called me a bigot, but he doesn't know me from Adam. From my point of view, I see Lew as unpatriotic, an enabler for the Politically Correct (PC) shit that's running rampant over our lands. To him and people like that, I say "Cease and desist, damnit! You're an active part of the problem we're facing."
Notice to Illegals: If you're trying sneaking into my country, using our services at our cost, and raising shit, you're going to get shit thrown right back atcha, Mr. Illegal from any country. Count on it. If possible, we'll deport you.
And Damn the PCers everywhere!
-- The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care of the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease. -- Thomas A. Edison
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