OT: Social Security Admin or scam?

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Charlie Self wrote:

^^^^^^^
I'll bet the Australians, New Zealanders, English and Canadians do too. ;-)
--

FF


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Odinn wrote:

Learn something about English, and language in general, before calling others stupid, please.
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Was, wenn wir entschieden, ber USENET mit irgendeiner Sprache zu sprechen, whlten wir? Wrde dieses wirklich fr das Sprechen mit einer groen Gruppe wirkungsvoll sein? Es sollte nicht eine berraschung sein, die Englisch unsere nationale Sprache ist. Dies hat fr mehr als 100 Jahre gegolten. Da eine Gesellschaft eine allgemeine Form von Kommunikationen bentigt, sollten nicht Raketenwissenschaft sein. Es scheint ziemlich unhflich, zu verlangen da Gesellschaftnderung, weil Neulinge ablehnen, die nationale Sprache zu erlernen. Dieses ergibt nur eine zersplitterte Gesellschaft und ringt gegen sich. Ich whlte Deutsches in dieser Kommunikation fr einen Grund vor.Wenn meine Vorfahren die gleiche Logik verwendet hatten, wrden Sie Deutsches verstehen mssen, um mit mir in diesem Forum zu sprechen. Verstehen Sie dieses?
My apologies to true German speaking participants of rec.woodworking. I'm sure the grammar in the above is absolutely atrocious. It was, however, meant to convey a point. That point is that a common language is not a luxury in a cohesive society, it is a necessity. That the language in the United States is English is a fact, to rail against that fact, or to work against it only serves to further divide that society and make it less cohesive and able to function well with itself and others.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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On 9/18/2005 10:59 PM Mark & Juanita mumbled something about the following:

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Ich verstehe tadellos gut. Es bedeutet nicht, ich darin bereinstimme, da wir eine nationale Sprache haben, noch bedeutet sie mich zustimmt, da wir ein haben sollten. Wir haben nie ein in der Geschichte der US gehabt, und ihn jetzt nach 200 Plusjahren zu ndern wrde ein Fehler sein.
-- Odinn RCOS #7 SENS(less)
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
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rot13 snipped-for-privacy@ngynagnovxre.arg to reply
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Charlie Self wrote:

Do they pay taxes? Is your money better than theirs?
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snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:

What does one have to do with the other? Presumably, on your basis, some guy speaking Bantu, who pays taxes, should be able to force his language on the rest of us. The dominant language in this country has always been English, for the simple reason that by far the largest percentage of the population spoke and read it. It simplifies public life to have it remain so, but there is no reason that people cannot speak whatever language they prefer among themselves, whether Bantu, Swahili or one of god knows how many Chinese dialects. Hell, they can even speak Irish for all I care. I just don't care to have to pay for the translations that take up half the space in manuals and tax instructions, or to have to deal with people who cannot speak English but are being paid by MY taxes to sell government programs to the public.
I guess we can go with a dual language set-up, a dual cultural set-up, as in Quebec. We all know that has worked beautifully over the years, don't we?
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Charlie Self wrote:

Your presumption, not mine.

Suppose there is enough revenu from Bantu speakers so that income tax instructions published in Bantu cost the government the same as income tax instructions published in English. Then it wouldn't be your taxes that go for paying for the translation, right?
Personally, I'm kind of ambivalent about publishing income tax instructions in multiple languages, though it may be cost-effective in some cases.
But supposing that there is a school system with a lot of students who speak Bantu. It makes sense to me to hire some- one who speaks Bantu to teach those students English.

Switzerland has three official languages. How well has that worked out?
BTW, have you ever complimented an Indian on how well he speaks English?
--

FF


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wrote:

I have an idea. When the English speakers are not the majority of the tax payers, than we can change the language.

NO. It does them no good or the soceity that they are in.

German language is still dominant. The Ittalian and French speakers understand German pretty well becuase they want to be a part of soceity not a debt. Does them no good to listen and vote for the Government when they cannot understand them.

Find me one that speaks anything other than English these days, and I will.

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Chris wrote:

I have an idea, suppose suppose we don't change the language.

I do not see how you can deny that teaching those students English does not benefit both the students and their society.
Sadly, you are not alone.

My doctor speaks Hindi and English. But please, do not compliment her on her English.
BTW, the question was addressed to Charles Self, in response to something he wrote earlier.
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Pretty much repetitive. I said the same thing above.

I read wrong on the above. Thought you meant to bring someone in to continue teaching in Bantu and not English. Neither the less bringing in a teacher for each language is out of the question. Use a native speaker for all the different speakers. Better education as well.

We were taking about Cherokee Indians early. When did it change to Indians (as in the country)?
Chris
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Chris wrote:

No it is not repetative. You missed the point. Accomodating other languages does not change 'the' language from English nor does it force another language on English speakers (an earlier remark).

I'm not able to make any sense of that paragraph even after reading it several times.

It changed when Charlie Self mentioned Vietnamese, Pakistanis and Indians in the same sentence. I presume he meant Asiatic Indians, not 'woo woo' Indians. Perhaps his article has not yet propagated to your newsserver.
--

FF


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Yes it is repetative as the chances are NONE that the majority of the tax payers will be anything but English.

Find a native speaker to read it for you then,.

I must of missed that memo.
Chris
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Chris wrote:

You continue to miss the point. Making something available in other languages does not make it unavailable in English. A repeated insistance that it does is indicative a failure to grasp that simple reality, or disengenousness.
Making tax instructions available in Spanish does not 'change the language' from English to Spanish so long as the English language instructions remain available.

Could you help us out by identifyihng your native language?

Yes. That's pretty much what I said only I used the word 'article' instead of 'memo' because it was the correct English word to use.
--

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Respectfully I am not missing the point at all. Give a little / take a lot comes to mind. We are just enabling the fact that there is no reason the learn English. Give a few things in multiple languages and then the demand will be for more. Next thing you know, we will be searching street signs for English, like we do with instruction manuals.
If you accommodate / nurture the guise that not knowing English is ok, the problem will only worsen.
I am not saying that if you cannot read English you should not pay taxes. If you cannot read English than pay someone who can figure your taxes for you. Do not expect the others to pay (through taxes to translate) for your lack of knowledge. For that matter why should a foreign speaker who took the time to learn English pay for another who refuses?
Point blank; name me one US citizen that who has stood out for the better of this country who could not speak English. That leaves out 100% of the military, as English is required. Let us dwell on why English is mandatory in the military. Because at the extreme, lives are on the line. This can easily be translated into living in the US. Not that lives are on the line in normal US living. It is well known that nobody can function 100% unless there is a common form of communication.
For Pete's sake we have English as the most popular second language throughout the world. Why? Because of the affiliation of the US. You have people in other countries learning English, not only because of the US but the fact that it seems to becoming the most international language. Can we not expect the same for the people that are actually living on our soil?
Chris
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Chris wrote:

Here I disagree. I do not see accomodations for non-English speakers making it at all harder for English Speakers. It hasn't made anything harder for me and I don't anticipate it becomming that way.
I think the products that have manuals/instructions printed in a huge variety of languages are typically intedned for sale in the same package in many different countries, though I suppose that may not always be the case.
--

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snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:

In general, the manuals aimed at the U.S. eastern market are usually printed in English, Spanish and French. That's actually Northeast needs, as there are very few French speakers who wander this far away from Quebec.
As long as we continue to teach English as the primary language, insisting that immigrants learn it, we won't have problems with multi-language signage and similar fun stuff. When we stop, for whatever reason, the pressures from those who don't speak English for convenience items will increase. Given the butt kissing mode most politicians live in these days, it won't take long to change.
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Charlie Self wrote:

...
...
Those products aren't "aimed" anywhere--they're simply generic to cover all markets. We get the same stuff here in the midwest/southwest as there. The choice of languages is one of the manufacturer for how many to print it in rather than where the product is going for almost everything.

That's already an issue in the southern tier states w/ Spanish... :(
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wrote:

From the "what's wrong with this picture? file": A school bus in Tucson with an anti-smoking propaganda sign --- in Spanish.
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

Hmm, should I suppose that if one does not understand the text it looks like a cigarette advertisement?
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On 22 Sep 2005 10:16:21 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:

Nope, if one does not understand the text, it looks like white letters in Spanish on a blue background. :-)
My question has been, if the students can't read English, where did they learn to read Spanish?
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