OT: Separate hot and cold valves on kitchen taps save energy.

[krw]

Why do you say that? Does it matter if you heat the water in a water heater or the DW? Most water heaters are electric, so it seems it would be a wash. ;-)

[OFWW]

Most water heaters in Calif are gas. Electric water heater coils in the bottom of a residential DW. It was those I was speaking about having a probable time limit to operate in one DW cycle. Purpose, to keep operating costs reasonable.

Gas heating costs here are far more reasonable than electric.

[krw]

But if the water isn't up to temperature, a DW will suspend the cycle until it is (obviously lengthening the cycle). ...at least if it's on any of the "sanitization" or heavy duty cycles.

Natural gas, anyway, isn't available in much of the country. Even where it is, electric water heaters are popular because they're cheaper and simpler. Of course, we don't pay the outrageous electric rates that you do in Kalifornistan.

[OFWW]

Yes, that is what the whirlpool sight said. But it also said it may never get to 155. So there must be a time/temp termination involved.

On the heavy duty cycles while it was variable due to the amount of dirt, it was also time limited. IOW, there was a max time that it was to complete inside of it.

That may be true. Might be why solar is finally taking off. But there are still too many snake oil salesmen in that area.

[Ed Pawlowski]

We get a couple of calls a week about solar. The scam is that they lease to you and they reap most of the benefits and tax credits. Potential problem selling your house after 10 years when you have a 20 year lease on the solar panels.

You can buy outright, but payback is long.

[Puckdropper]

Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:TaadnSwPgNki9SrLnZ2dnUU7- [e-mail]:

There was one company that not only leased the panels but handled maintenance and repair if the system ever needed it. They get the tax credits and a monthly fee, you get lower power bills and someone to handle the big stuff on the system (I'm sure you still have to do some stuff). Sounds like a case where both parties benefit.

I would have looked deeper in to them, I think it was Sun City, but they don't service my area.

Puckdropper

[OFWW]

Not only that, but the deterioration really starts setting in about 10 years after initial startup if you live in a densely populated area, not sure about the countryside. The surfaces get etched by smog, and acid rain. So payback if done properly is in about 10 years, and then you can operate at about 50% for really free, or startup the vicious cycle all over again but with new technology.

The real beneficiaries of solar power is big business and large commercial properties who have to pay demand charges for their electricity. Those charges are truly excessive so solar power payback is quick under those circumstances.

[Ed Pawlowski]

There is a web page devoted to the pitfalls of solar. If you ever get serious, check it out. Find out who pays to remove and reinstall when you need a new roof, selling your house, etc. Remember the "free lunch" saying.

[Leon]

Exactly, needing a new roof was always a fear for me with solar panels.