OT: Separate hot and cold valves on kitchen taps save energy.

[Lew Hodgett]

"Eric" reminds me of the comet that bursts into sight burning ever so brightly only to fade ever so quickly into the night time sky.

Lew

[Swingman]

Don't blame him for being somewhat bitter though ... Too damn many opportunist in the home building industry have been screwing folks for far too long. The trade "associations" of the big boys spend half their time polishing their image, and the other half hell bent on tarnishing it.

[Lew Hodgett]

--------------------------------- Basic reason distributors exist.

The manufacturers want to be legally insulated from the contractors.

I had one electrical contractor who would declare bankruptcy every

12-18 months, then reopen and repeat cycle.

Lew

[Larry Jaques]

Can you still use RoundUp or weed killer sprays? It's fertilizers I'd have banned, were I King. Maybe it's because the weed'n'feed crap doesn't work well at killing anything that they outlawed it. Nitrogen runoff from those things is causing algae bloom everywhere.

I'm waiting for my copy of my sister's friend's book about doing away with lawns. I don't know if it's published yet. Until then, I have a copy of _The Wild Lawn Handbook_.

Yeah, where would you be without those dear things?

This just in from email:

WORLD SURVEY BY PHONE

Last month a world-wide survey was conducted by the UN.

It had one question: "Would you please give your honest opinion about solutions to the food shortage in the rest of the world?"

The survey was a huge failure because of the following:

1. In Eastern Europe they didn't know what "honest" meant.

1. In Western Europe they didn't know what "shortage" meant.

2. In Africa they didn't know what "food" meant.

1. In China they didn't know what "opinion" meant.

2. In the Middle East they didn't know what "solution" meant.

1. In South America they didn't know what "please" meant.

2. In the USA they didn't know what "the rest of the world" meant.

1. In UK they hung up as soon as they heard the Indian accent.

-- Never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects. --anon

[-MIKE-]

[Eric]

savings over tanked water heaters, energywise. But it'd save water instead of electricity or gas.

Which is higher in your house, gas/elec bill or water? I'll bet water is cheaper almost everywhere, but it is more valuable.

I'm surprised that lawns haven't been banned. Wouldn't that be nice? No more mowing, feeding, greening, weeding, mower noise and cost, etc.

===============

I am growing "Eco-Grass" . It's a bitch to get going, especially in thunderstorms that wash out 20-30 yards of topsoil down the ditch, and it take about two years to look decent, but with it's 9-12" deep roots it is drought proof, mostly weed proof and needs to be mowed about every three weeks, only, and it really looks good with a nice fine blade.. Trouble is the weeds like to stick up much higher and much faster so you mow anyway. Biggest trick is to ditch the Kentucky Blue Grass = high maintenance, lots of weeds and dies in a drought quite quickly, tooted as the highest cost ground cover invented. (I never liked that Blue Grass noise either)

[Robatoy]

On Jun 9, 3:02=A0pm, "Eric" wrote: [snipped]

THAT's an automatic suspension.

[Eric]

Can you still use RoundUp or weed killer sprays? It's fertilizers I'd have banned, were I King. Maybe it's because the weed'n'feed crap doesn't work well at killing anything that they outlawed it. Nitrogen runoff from those things is causing algae bloom everywhere.

I'm waiting for my copy of my sister's friend's book about doing away with lawns. I don't know if it's published yet. Until then, I have a copy of _The Wild Lawn Handbook_.

Yeah, where would you be without those dear things?

This just in from email:

WORLD SURVEY BY PHONE

Last month a world-wide survey was conducted by the UN.

It had one question: "Would you please give your honest opinion about solutions to the food shortage in the rest of the world?"

The survey was a huge failure because of the following:

1. In Eastern Europe they didn't know what "honest" meant.

1. In Western Europe they didn't know what "shortage" meant.

2. In Africa they didn't know what "food" meant.

1. In China they didn't know what "opinion" meant.

2. In the Middle East they didn't know what "solution" meant.

1. In South America they didn't know what "please" meant.

2. In the USA they didn't know what "the rest of the world" meant.

1. In UK they hung up as soon as they heard the Indian accent.

-- Never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects. --anon

========= Wife and I both had a good laugh over that one!

[willshak]

Eric wrote the following:

Can we know where you live? It may make a difference in the responses.

[Joe AutoDrill]

Just so you know, I'm stealing that...

[scatter]

There's a device called the 'hot chillie' which, when the hot water tap is turned on, pumps it back through the cold water line until it's up to temperature. It's only for a single tap but is a neat idea for long runs.

[Larry Jaques]

I don't understand. When the hot water faucet is turned on, that water comes out the tap. The cold water faucet isn't open. What does the pump send back? And if something's being sent back in the cold pipe, what happens if both are opened for some strange reason, like warm water? Or does this only work down there?

I watched the movie _Australia_ last night and it was fantastic. Tears in me eyes and all that.

is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony. -- Mahatma Gandhi

[Swingman]

Just installed one of these in the last kitchen we built:

cool ... or hot, whichever you desire!

[Bruce]

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:20:18 -0600, Swingman wrote (in article ):

These things are great for getting that hot cup of tea or what ever without using the microwave. The one I personally have is connected to the output of our RO water system.

Avoid any units where the tank is connected directly to the dispensing valve (generally the cheapest ones available). The one I first installed and those installed by several others locally all have died horrible deaths within a year or two. Usually the valve explodes or the tank thermostat dies. They also have the tendency to spit hot water regardless of where the temperature is set.

The preferred units have a remote (1-2+ quart) tank which is better insulated and generally of higher quality. Pay attention to the valve. More money spent here means less plastic. Our current Kitchen-Aid unit (about $300) is the cats meow.

At my day job, they use the cheap in-sink-erator types in the kitchens and they last about 6 months before breaking. Either they have a large stock of these or some kind of contract because they keep buying them...

As to the hot water loop, the only solution I see that really works without wasting lots of power is to install a water heater (5 gallon or so) at the sink. The trick is to have this fed from the hot water line so by the time the tank is running low on heat, the 'real' hot water has begun to arrive. You need to consider the energy used and compare that with the recirculating pump approach and also consider that this only works at a single point whereas the recirculator can cover a whole house. $0.02

-Bruce

[Robatoy]

Back in 1955 somebody was thinking because the 40 gallon hot water tank is directly, and I mean directly below the main bathroom. That particular bathroom sink has, what I would call, instant hot water... so does the tub and shower. Now the kitchen, on the other hand, is at the opposite end of the house. Maybe they weren't thinking that day?

[Swingman]

This particular faucet fixture is hooked up to both an InstaHot (?), and chilled water unit.

On a custom job I don't buy the appliances, I just build the kitchens and supervise installation of the clients choice in hardware and fixtures.

[Robert Bonomi]

It sounds like a _pump_ connected from the hot line, to the cold line. =before= they get to the faucet/valves.

On a pressure drop in the hot line (when the faucet is opened), the pump turns on and draws water out of the hot line, forcing it into the cold one. More-or-less making the cold water line the 'return' of a recirculating hot-water system.

When the _water_temperature_ coming into the pump rises to a threshold value, the pump shuts off.

In a 'simple' installation, this will get hot water to a 'slightly open' faucet as quickly as if the faucet was turned 'all the way on'.

If there is an 'anti-backflow valve' installed between the pump intake and the faucet valve, then one can use a bigger pump -- one that pulls a net suction on the hot-water supply, and thus moves the water faster than a full-open faucet would. This, however, leads to the 'counter-intuitive' situation of turning on the hot water, and more-or-less _nothing_ comes out until the water is up to temperature.

[scatter]

Its an electronic system that senses taps opening and water temperature. No water comes out of the hot water faucet until it's up to temperature. It gets pumped back into the cold water line - it saves water without eating too much power (which can be a big deal during our droughts).

Here's a page showing one.

[claytondon578]

I agree with you.Our kitchen single handle is always in in the middle or ho t position. Every time the water is turned on hot water is being drawn from the water heater. Not only is energy being wasted, we are drinking water f rom the water heater tank. I wonder if that is healthy? With two separate h andles you know that if you turn on the cold water you are getting pure col d water,not a mixture of cold and water from the tank.

[Leon]

Hot water from your WH is hot, and comes from the same place your cold water comes from.