OT: Separate hot and cold valves on kitchen taps save energy.

[RicodJour]

They are a waste, but why stop halfway?

[Robatoy]

Hey, I have to collect money to pay them new cool weapons somehow.

[Robatoy]

And this takes what, 3 sailors to do properly?

[-MIKE-]

You beat me to it!

[J. Clarke]

Nahh, just takes one watch tending the condenser.

Navy rule--you've got three minutes of water to take a shower. Reason being that the water purification capaibility of a Navy ship is limited.

[Lew Hodgett]

------------------------------- I just spec the stuff, not buy it..

---------------------------------

----------------------------------- "Tankless" first hit the marine market in the mid 1980s.

Propane fired, it was a natural; however, a couple of improper installations let to some deaths as a result of CO poisoning.

The liability suits forced the manufacturer into bankruptcy and that was the end of "Tankless" for the marine & RV markets.

Bosch was one of the first 12VDC controls from their units to make marine installation all but impossible.

The rest of the suppliers followed suit.

(BTW, had resolved the issue for my boat).

As far as reducing water waste to get hot water to the faucet, sailors solved the problem a long time ago.

A simple On-Off valve piped on the hot water side the directs the water back to the potable water storage tank solves the problem.

Open the valve, the water pump kicks on, the "tankless" heater kicks in and a few seconds later, hot water is at the faucet, ready for use.

Problem solved.

Not practical for shore side, but a standard configuration for the cruising sailor.

Lew

[Eric]

Ed Pawlowski wrote the following:

1. My water comes from a well 325' below the surface in the front yard.
2. My water is filtered as soon as it enters the house.
3. My filtered water is softened before it gets to the propane water heater.
4. My hot water doesn't sit very long in the 4 year old heater tank. It is used daily.
5. My well water has no odor, taste, or color.

For those of you who have city water, what is in those water pipes that probably have been sitting in the ground for decades or longer, and in what condition are those pipes?

====================

Sure, but when a city pipe leaks underground the pressure tends to make it leek..***OUT****

Maybe pressure works differently in the country on a well? Mine doesn't. Mine is filtered and softened with two different styles of units and the water heater still needs cleaning twice a year from whatever is left. Maybe the sodium from the softener?? or the potassium from the pot. perm. filter??

[Lew Hodgett]

------------------------------------ Smart lady.

Try a little test.

Prepare two pots of pasta, one your way, the other her way.

Run a comparison taste test.

Assuming you still have taste buds, you will have your answer, especially if you use fresh pasta for the test.

Lew

[Robert Bonomi]

When I first read that, I thought you were proposing a tax for those who have 'the grip'. Which doesn't sound like such a bad idea, from a public health standpoint. :)

[Larry Jaques]

Eek! No, I live and shower alone. But thanks for sharing your risque fantasies with us, Toy. (What triggers it, all those bananas? ;)

-- Experience is a good teacher, but she send in terrific bills. -- Minna Thomas Antrim

[Larry Jaques]

Are you referring to something in hit #2 here:

upon that, will you?

-- Experience is a good teacher, but she send in terrific bills. -- Minna Thomas Antrim

[EXT]

I have a tank style water heater that is high efficiency. When first installed it heated up 40 gallons of water from cold winter input temperature to 140 degrees F. in 12 minutes. To run it sips the gas, cut my gas consumption down considerably and screwed up the gas companies estimates for that season. The exhaust is barely warm to the touch. It is the best of both worlds, you cannot use the hot water faster than it can make it, just like a tankless but with a tank as a reserve and non of the tankless problems and maintenance.

[-MIKE-]

If you find an opportunity to write down the make and model, I'd like to have it for future reference. Thanks.

[Puckdropper]

"Eric" wrote in news:isievr$uqf$ [e-mail]:

The flow rate sounds like something that should be adjustable on the various tankless units. (Note the use of "should"--not necessarily "is".) I can understand not wanting a trickle of water to turn on the heater, but setting it so you only need 1/2 gallon per minute to turn on (for faucet use) would seem to be a good thing.

Puckdropper

[Swingman]

Hybrid with a reserve tank?

[-MIKE-]

Interesting.... I don't understand the first feature.... "Performs like a tankless model and can also handle high hot water demand periods"

If the "and" is a typo, fine, but I thought the whole purpose of a tankless *is* to "handle high hot water demand periods."

[Eric]

Interesting.... I don't understand the first feature.... "Performs like a tankless model and can also handle high hot water demand periods"

If the "and" is a typo, fine, but I thought the whole purpose of a tankless *is* to "handle high hot water demand periods."

[Eric]

------------------------------- I just spec the stuff, not buy it..

---------------------------------

----------------------------------- "Tankless" first hit the marine market in the mid 1980s.

Propane fired, it was a natural; however, a couple of improper installations let to some deaths as a result of CO poisoning.

The liability suits forced the manufacturer into bankruptcy and that was the end of "Tankless" for the marine & RV markets.

Bosch was one of the first 12VDC controls from their units to make marine installation all but impossible.

The rest of the suppliers followed suit.

(BTW, had resolved the issue for my boat).

As far as reducing water waste to get hot water to the faucet, sailors solved the problem a long time ago.

A simple On-Off valve piped on the hot water side the directs the water back to the potable water storage tank solves the problem.

Open the valve, the water pump kicks on, the "tankless" heater kicks in and a few seconds later, hot water is at the faucet, ready for use.

Problem solved.

Not practical for shore side, but a standard configuration for the cruising sailor.

Lew

==============

Long pipes and large system pockets (manifolds) are the problem with most hot water distribution systems. Right at the tap sounds good but hasn't proven easy to implement.

[Eric]

"Eric" wrote in news:isievr$uqf$ [e-mail]:

The flow rate sounds like something that should be adjustable on the various tankless units. (Note the use of "should"--not necessarily "is".) I can understand not wanting a trickle of water to turn on the heater, but setting it so you only need 1/2 gallon per minute to turn on (for faucet use) would seem to be a good thing.

Puckdropper

=============

The ranges are just about that 1/2 gallon per minute. That still seems a little insensitive to me but...

consider a water saving device like a faucet. As a guess they must consume about 3/4 - 1.5 gallons per minute wide open. A water saving shower head is restricted to 2.5 gpm here.

Now you want a mix of hot and cold water so your don't burn your face and hands and your wife doesn't want the mirror splashed that she just cleaned again so you set the valves about half way open and say half and half hot /cold. Now you have less than 1/2 a gallon per minute and the unit figures no demand is there and turns itself off. So you turn your faucet a little hotter and after a short delay your tankless kicks in again. Now you have, what is commonly referred to, in the industry, as a "cold water sandwich" coming down your pipe. Now your faucet water suddenly goes to hot and you repeat the nonsense.

Solution: Turn the faucet on full blast and clean the mirror after each hand wash, wash in scalding hot water, or go to Swingy's place to wash your hands where he has figured out how to avoid all these bad installation practices. :-P

[Swingman]

Watch that paraphrased Google knowledge, it'll bite you in the butt just like your plumbing salesman ...

Water temperature and source makes no difference to a manifold delivery system itself, hot or cold, tank or tankless.

With a PEX mainfold system, properly located and installed, the water in the usual 3/8" tubing has a higher water velocity, and the water, hot or cold, is delivered much faster than with a conventional piping system, tank or tankless, and with a lower volume in the tubing ... albeit not much more "green" on that score.

Once again, proper planning and installation to the forefront.