OT: Separate hot and cold valves on kitchen taps save energy.

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Just a hunch mind you, but at my house, that Delta faucet single-lever is always parked in the middle position. When any of us need water we push it to open, but I seldom see it then turned to the right which would give us only cold water. Now, if we fill a pot of water, we do push it to the right, but initially 'some' hot water will be released as the valve is opened.
I felt the hotwater tank outlet line heat up as the water was drawn with the valve 'in the middle'.
Add up all the single lever taps on the planet, and the bad habit of not turning the valve handle to the 'cold' position, and you got yourself another source of wasted energy that can only lead to the oceans going up another foot.
I say: OUTLAW single lever taps.
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On Sun, 5 Jun 2011 09:20:59 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

Yes so is this as a counter guy, you know extra holes to drill?
J/K
Mark
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On Sun, 5 Jun 2011 09:20:59 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

This will lead to specialized, spring-loaded, child-proofed, scald-proof taps which take 3 hands to make hot. Can you say TapStop(tm)? I knew you could.
Nah. Just outlaw the lazy idiots who don't pay attention and waste hot water. That'll teach 'em!
-- Experience is a good teacher, but she send in terrific bills. -- Minna Thomas Antrim
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wrote:

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Robatoy wrote the following:

pot with cold water. I fill it with hot water since it is halfway to boiling already. I offered this suggestion to her, but I guess it is against Italian law.
--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
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On 6/5/11 1:53 PM, willshak wrote:

Back in the day, hot water didn't taste very good from the tap, so people didn't like using it for cooking. I don't know if newer tanks produce better tasting water nor not, just offering info as to why many prefer to boil cold water.
The subject made me think, however, if there is any energy saved by using hot water. The tank is going to have to heat cold water to replace what you took out to boil. Does that take more or less energy than the stove uses to heat cold water to whatever temperature the hot water talk is set? Just thinking out loud.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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-MIKE- wrote the following:

Both of my water and range heat sources are propane. I was just thinking about cooking time. :-)
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Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
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On 06/05/2011 12:06 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

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Maybe it's like tea. You need to bring fresh cold water to a boil, otherwise it doesn't taste good, or so they say. It's sure that cold water holds far more dissolved air. Maybe that makes a difference as you boil the water and remove the dissolved air.
--
Best regards
Han
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On 6/5/11 4:20 PM, Han wrote:

I know the taste of the water greatly effects the taste of coffee, so it must be the same with tea. I don't think it's a temperature thing. Those tanks can get pretty nasty inside.
Easy way to find out, however. Fill a glass with hot water and fill one with cold. Put them in the fridge for an hour and have a taste test.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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I recently had a tank replaced and the difference was immediately apparent. I still don't understand why we can't make direct water heaters cheaper. All of Europe runs on tankless hot water.
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On 6/5/11 8:55 PM, Robatoy wrote:

I don't care what they cost, next one I buy will be tank-less. The added efficiency must make up for the added cost fairly soon. That and the fact that if I want to take a 2 hour shower, I can. And it's none of your business why I'm taking a 2 hour shower.
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-MIKE-

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Do some checking first. The cost of installation on a retrofit can be high as you have to upgrade some of the utilities to accommodate them. For electric, it may even require new service to the house. They are also known to lime up and require a lot of maintenance if you have very hard water. There are other alternatives that may be more cost effective.
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On 6/5/2011 10:02 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You're dead on. For a retrofit, whole house unit, the electrical requirements are the deal breaker for many.
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"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message wrote

Do some checking first. The cost of installation on a retrofit can be high as you have to upgrade some of the utilities to accommodate them. For electric, it may even require new service to the house. They are also known to lime up and require a lot of maintenance if you have very hard water. There are other alternatives that may be more cost effective.
============== Be sure to add in the cost of a flushing system, extra valves, hoses and fittings, buckets, a small pump, and 6-8 gallons of vinegar per year to keep the thing running.
Increased efficiency is a crock with thankless water heaters. Look at the water wasted trying to trigger the heater with enough volume of flow instead of being able to set a slow warm water trickle from the faucet. Most of the water saving faucets have a hard time even triggering these thankless heaters into action.
--
Eric




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The flow rate sounds like something that should be adjustable on the various tankless units. (Note the use of "should"--not necessarily "is".) I can understand not wanting a trickle of water to turn on the heater, but setting it so you only need 1/2 gallon per minute to turn on (for faucet use) would seem to be a good thing.
Puckdropper
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"Puckdropper" wrote in message

The flow rate sounds like something that should be adjustable on the various tankless units. (Note the use of "should"--not necessarily "is".) I can understand not wanting a trickle of water to turn on the heater, but setting it so you only need 1/2 gallon per minute to turn on (for faucet use) would seem to be a good thing.
Puckdropper
============ The ranges are just about that 1/2 gallon per minute. That still seems a little insensitive to me but...
http://calc.rinnai.us/residentialheaters.aspx?&SID=iwzf2c55nas2ptumd0lcjc45
Now consider a water saving device like a faucet. As a guess they must consume about 3/4 - 1.5 gallons per minute wide open. A water saving shower head is restricted to 2.5 gpm here.
Now you want a mix of hot and cold water so your don't burn your face and hands and your wife doesn't want the mirror splashed that she just cleaned again so you set the valves about half way open and say half and half hot /cold. Now you have less than 1/2 a gallon per minute and the unit figures no demand is there and turns itself off. So you turn your faucet a little hotter and after a short delay your tankless kicks in again. Now you have, what is commonly referred to, in the industry, as a "cold water sandwich" coming down your pipe. Now your faucet water suddenly goes to hot and you repeat the nonsense.
Solution: Turn the faucet on full blast and clean the mirror after each hand wash, wash in scalding hot water, or go to Swingy's place to wash your hands where he has figured out how to avoid all these bad installation practices. :-P
--
Eric


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wrote:

installed it heated up 40 gallons of water from cold winter input temperature to 140 degrees F. in 12 minutes. To run it sips the gas, cut my gas consumption down considerably and screwed up the gas companies estimates for that season. The exhaust is barely warm to the touch. It is the best of both worlds, you cannot use the hot water faster than it can make it, just like a tankless but with a tank as a reserve and non of the tankless problems and maintenance.
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On 6/7/11 1:27 PM, EXT wrote:

If you find an opportunity to write down the make and model, I'd like to have it for future reference. Thanks.
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-MIKE-

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Hybrid with a reserve tank?
http://www.hotwater.com/water-heaters/residential/hybrid/next-hybrid-gas /
--
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