OT Porter Cable Router $99.00 Amazon.com

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"Leon" wrote:

Thermal-magnetic c'bkrs are designed to carry 100% of name plate rating on a continuous basis in free air.
Mount the c'bkr in an enclosure and a 20% thermal de-rate applies.
A load center (panel) is considered an enclosure.
Thus the following applies:
15A c'bkr will carry 15(80%) = 12Amps continuous
20A c'bkr will carry 20(80%) = 16Amps continuous 30A c'bkr will carry 30(80%) = 24Amps continuous
No magic involved, just basic engineering.
Lew
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That all sounds in line Lew.
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The startup current exceeds the running current for these sorts of devices by several times.

The compressor may draw 50A when it starts.
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Understand that start up is greater than running speed however it seldom tripped a 15 amp breaker in my old home when it came on and a 15 amp router, dust collector, and radio were all already running on the same circuit. Come summer time that was another story.
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You said: "One a week when both would come on at the same time the breaker would trip."
The one starting while the other was running (or worse, both starting simultaneously) was enough to trip the breaker. Both running is not. I would expect this sort of behavior. The breaker in your old house may not have been working at all.
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At the new house with the new breakers. Previous comment was about older house.

Typically I would have the router, dust collector, and radio running. Then the compressor would cycle and trip the breaker only in the summer months, but never did in the fall through spring months.
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On 3/24/11 1:46 PM, Leon wrote:

I'm no electrical engineer and I'm just thinking out loud..... Summer months are high load months for the electric company, so maybe there is a slight voltage drop during those times.... ie: from 125+ down to 115- ????
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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Circuit breakers do not measure amperage so to speak, they measure temperature in the breaker. If the amperage draw is too high it gets hot and trips. In the summer it is already warm and the added load trips the breaker more quickly. During the cooler months the breaker has to warm up more before it trips. We are only talking momnets but it only takes moments for a motor to start up. Think of a circuit breaker as a reusable fuse.
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Better?
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Leon wrote:

Only partially true.
C'bkrs found in buildings are thermal-magnetic devices.
The magnetic portion of the c'bkr measures the inrush current and responds instantaneously to a fault condition independent of temperature.
If a c'bkr trips when a load such as a motor is first turned on, the magnetic portion of the c'bkr is responding to the inrush conditions.
Mean while the thermal portion of the c'bkr responds to the long term conditions of the circuit such as when an overload on a continuous basis exists.
Circuit conditions maybe be such that it may take several minutes for the thermal portion of the c'bkr to trip.
Overload current vs. thermal trip time is an inverse ratio.
This explains why you can temporarily overload a table saw during a cut and not trip the c'bkr, if you do it quickly enough. -----------------------------------

The above correctly describes only the functioning of the thermal portion of a c'bkr. ------------------------------------

The above describes only the magnetic portion of a functioning c'bkr in a round about way and should not be confused with the thermal function of a thermal-magnetic c'bkr.
All of this discussion helps to explain why 15A c'bkrs protecting #14 AWG wiring are basically a total waste of time in today's buildings, and especially in the shop.
The electrical demands of today are much higher than they were 50 years ago and 15A ckt's are simply inadequate in today's world. .
Lew
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wrote:

Aw, c'mon, Leon. You three -gush- over Festools, every time.

I am familiar with the products. They just didn't let the vendors plug anything in outside the store that day, so I can't judge performance.
I'm good at judging the quality (or lack thereof) of tools from their feel and action, even unplugged, so I was disappointed when I didn't feel the silky smoothness of Festool when I did pick them up and run them through their ranges of motion and such. I couldn't tell any difference from their Bosch, DeWalt, Ridgid, or Makita counterparts, and that really surprised me. THAT is why I say "Festering" when I see their prices.
From what you converts say, they probably perform much better with power. I wish I knew someone local who would let me play with their agro-colored toys sometime.
-- "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." --Edward Abbey
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On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:08:53 -0700, Larry Jaques

One thing that surprised me about their track-saw (TS-55) is the lack of power. It's great for panels but forget it as a circular saw. I think my 18V DeWalt has more power.
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Don't know where you're located, but there's a number of hands on classes for Festool in the US. As well, I've heard of several dealers that let customers try out a few tools. Maybe you should call around. And finally, Festool does have a 30 return policy.
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I like Festool, I get no benefit from any one buying one.

Ignorance guides your thought process. You think you are good at judging quality. Untill you actually use the tool you don't know squat about how well that tool operates. Results, day in and day out are what count.

Duh!
I wish I knew someone local who would let me play with their

Any one that sells them should let you try them, even if you mail order you have 30 days to decide.
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wrote:

I should hope so, but will it last 15~20 years like the old stuff did? I have a 22 year old PC right angle ROS that I retired 3 years ago, it still runs as good as it did when new although I have worn out the pad 3 or 4 times, same goes for my old PC SpedBloc. The SpedBloc however did poop out about 5 years ago and I replaced it with the same model but unfortunately it is not the same tool. That was my last PC purchase. My type 1 557 plate joiner still works well as did its belt driven predecessor.
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My 7336 ROS (1991) and two 690 Routers (1993 and 2002) are rock solid.
Have had to replace the PSA pad on the 7336 once, just this year.
scott
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