OT - Politics

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Renata wrote:

Consider instead that the current government came from people who were following that advice.
So how would you change the government? Not just what changes would you make, but how would you bring them about?
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On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:17:38 -0500, "J. Clarke"

Not sure that they're so into protecting the _country_ from it's government, but rather using that government for their own purposes.

And that is THE question. Rather complex, no? For example, I have read several articles with suggestions, but, quite frankly, none of them seemed to propose ideas that would be effective given today's complacent populous, who aren't inclined to "rock the boat" from their seemingly comfortable enclaves. Meanwhile, it seems that something rather unpleasant is sneaking up on all of us...
How 'bout you?
R
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Renata wrote:

The options seem to be to leave, but there doesn't seem to be anywhere else that's an improvement, or armed insurrection, but there aren't enough people opposed to the current government to support such an insurrection, or read legislation and write letters critical of it and see what happens. One time I wrote a 30 page critique of a piece of legislation and sent it to my representative and was surprised to find that just about every comment I made was addressed in the bill that was passed. I suppose I could run for office but I've never been very good at popularity contests.
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On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:16:15 -0500, "J. Clarke"

Most of what I've seen involved writing your congress critters and such. Sometimes a "strike" (e.g. don't go to work on such and such a day) of some sort.
I am quite surprised that writing may actually be effective (from your example)! Have to remember that.
I think that it's not that people aren't opposed to some of the things going on, but that (without getting into too long a dissertation): * they don't want to disrupt their relatively comfortable lives; * they don't think it's going to be effective; * they aren't personally impacted by any of the shenanigans (yet); * they aren't really as well informed as they think (the corporate media does an abysmal job, among other factors); * they don't realize the implications of some of the shenanigans; * they feel powerless.
Among others...
Renata
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He had it almost right. If you don't like the current government, consider the alternatives.. If any are better, work toward them.
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FF


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On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:44:48 -0700, Mark & Juanita

Look, we know past achievements aren't a prerequisite for holding the highest office in the land, or the current occupant would've been laughed outta town, what with his string of business "successes" and fine "governance" of the "great" state of Texas, not to mention his "youthful indiscretions".
Renata

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Renata wrote:

People who think that conservatives are down on the idea of a female President don't remember Maggie Thatcher, who most conservatives would have voted for if she had been eligible to and chosen to run for the office of President. The singular lack of success of female candidates in the past has been because they came across as "woman candidates" and not "candidates who happen to be women".
Now, that said, I'm probably going to end up voting for Hillary if she gets the nomination (and that will be the first time going back to Nixon that I vote for a Democratic candidate for President), unless the Republicans pull a rabbit out of their hat. The reason is simple--I've always thought that the wrong Clinton got elected and I am curious as to what she would actually do. She comes across as tough, conniving, determined, willing to do whatever's necessary to achieve her objectives, and so likely to be very effective. And I have every confidence that the Islamists will do something stupid that will set her off.
Besides, it would be kind of fun to see Rush Limbaugh's head explode.

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Fri, Dec 7, 2007, 12:20pm snipped-for-privacy@cox.net (J.Clarke) doth sayeth: <snip> She comes across as tough, conniving, determined, willing to dowhatever's necessary to achieve her objectives, <snip>
Indeed, and what her objectives are is what worries me..
JOAT Even Popeye didn't eat his spinach until he had to.
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J T wrote:

The only thing that she really seems to be pushing for is further fouling up the medical system, but it's such a clusterfuck now that the amount of harm that she can do in that regard would appear to be limited.
And really, when has your life changed in a major way due to the election of one candidate or another?
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J. Clarke wrote:

Oh yeah, our system is so screwed up that people who can, come to use it instead of relying upon *their* own country's socialized health care system.

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If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

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"And really, when has your life changed in a major way due to the election of one candidate or another? "
How much was gas when the busher came in?
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henry wrote:

Adjusted for inflation, less than under Jimmy Carter - in fact it still is:
http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/adjusted.txt
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henry wrote:

What did he do to increase them that Clinton and Bush I and Reagan and Carter and Ford and Nixon and Johnson and Kennedy didn't do?
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Started a totally unnecessary war in Iraq, and sat back and threatened Iran?
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On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 04:22:38 -0800 (PST), Charlie Self

I agree, but our Oil-War President doesn't. It's an endless war costing taxpayers a lot of $--legal Americans get ready for a tax hike.
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experience, the current system is completely fouled up, with mutiple billings for the same thing both to the actual patient and his/her insurance company.
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Han
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Oh, man! I'd pay to see that. A blast and a whiff of pent up hot air.
I tend to agree with you about Clinton: I have always said that Jimmy Carter failed as President because he's a nice guy, thinks other people are nice, and, basically, doesn't have enough soon-of-a-bitch in him to do the job. I believe Mrs. Clinton qualifies, except for the 'son' part. And I think she'll do a good job. Of course, anything short of a total collapse of the Republic is going to look good with the mess goofball is leaving behind.
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Thu, Dec 6, 2007, 11:33am (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (CharlieSelf) doth sayeth: <snip> One thing has baffled me about Clinton's critics: most areconservatives (small and capital C) who staunchly defend family values (with the occasional exception such Giuliani, Gingrich, Craig and a few thousand others), standing by one's man and so forth, yet for years, they've criticized her as a bitch for not divorcing her husband when he drops trou in the wrong places. <snip>
I consider myself a conservative. However, a llot of people consider me a extreme liveral - possibly because I believe in the death penalty, and that it ought to be used more often. I also believe we should be putting more politicians in jaim. Anyway...
I've been a critic of the Clintons long before Slick Willy was president the first time. I don't think Hillary is a bitch for sticking by him, stupid comes to mine, but more likely it's only for her political advantage. Personally I sincerely hope she doesn't get elected, I think she hasn't the moral character, and certainly not the experience, to do an acceptable job - and then there's the horrible thought of Slick Willy having the run of the White House. She does seem to be a capable liar tho. I have nothing against a woman president, just not her - I consider her totally unqualified for the position. I don't consider her opponents all that much better, but some at least. Arrrggghhh. Don't get me started on politicians. Arrrrggggghhhhhh!!!
JOAT Even Popeye didn't eat his spinach until he had to.
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On Dec 6, 6:41 pm, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote: [snipped for brevity]

Who then? Janet Reno?
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Thu, Dec 6, 2007, 8:14pm (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (Robatoy) doth postech: On Dec 6, 6:41 pm, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote: [snipped for brevity] to be a capable liar tho.I have nothing against a woman president, just not her - Who then? Janet Reno?
OK, what I should have said then was "but not her". Janet Reno is a woman? In any event, not her either. I believe Wassername Rice might well be qualified tho, if she chose to run. I don't vot "for" any of 'em anymore, just vote against who I figure is least qualified. Which certainly does not mean I think the other candicate is that much more qualified, or that much less corrupt. But, if you don't vote, you've got no right to bitch about whoever does sneak into office.
JOAT Even Popeye didn't eat his spinach until he had to.
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