OT Pol: Some Meditations Before You Vote

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wrote:

... and that survey is a pure, unadulterated bunch of bullcrap. I know of no Bush supporter who thinks those things. Those ideas are actually much more indicative of liberal thinkers rather than the opposite. It almost appears to be a liberal's attempt at transference.
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On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:40:21 -0800, Fly-by-Night CC wrote:

I assume you're dropping the "loyalty oath" BS?
What's with 380.000 tons? The original charge was 380 tons. Since you or I weren't there, we have no idea what sort of disturbance these folks may have caused. I also wasn't aware the Oregon State Police took orders from rally organizers.
--
"It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among
[my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between
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Why's that? You still think it didn't happen?

Again, you think the State Police didn't do what the account says they did?
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____

"To know the world intimately is the beginning of caring."
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On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:52:07 -0800, Fly-by-Night CC wrote:

I've seen nothing but left wing propoganda to indicate it happened. Is there any cites other than moveon.org?

The question is why they did what they did and at whose direction. Do you know the circumstances and who gave the orders and why?
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Criminy Doug, DAGS; you'll find every thing from Rolling Stone to MSNBC; among the links, yeah, a lot of "left wing propaganda", but numerous newspaper articles as well. Surely you don't believe *every* newspapaper and website are a tool of the left, do you?
Regards,
JT
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On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:32:16 +0000, John Thomas wrote:

Well, IDAGS on bush loyalty oath and amonst all the blogs I found this:
<http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/politics/7853392.htm
Apparently, Democrats in South Carolina don't even want you to vote without signing a loyalty oath!
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On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:32:16 +0000, John Thomas wrote:

Near as I can tell, there was one case of the loyalty oath at a Cheny appearance in New Mexico. Seems the organizers caught wind of a group that planned to disrupt the event and made a bad decision. I can find no other references except the Democrat voting loyalty oath in John Edwards home state.
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I didn't post a link from moveon - it was from the Casper Wy Star Tribune. The Albuquerque paper also had it as did the Wash. Post site. It was an easy find by typing in "loyalty oath" and "Bush" into Google.

Nothing other than they were escorted out and away when a rally worker confronted one of the women on her way to the bathroom. He told her he thought her statement was "obscene". And the women were asked to leave. The state police element isn't explained, just reported.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____

"To know the world intimately is the beginning of caring."
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Fly-by-Night CC wrote:

Here in SC if you are having an event, nominally public, you can get police officers, local, county and/or state, for a fixed per hour rate. This provides a level of security enforced by professionals, theoretically, and is much better than the private "security" firms and their $7 per hour guards. You pay the police department not the individual and you get to set your own standards for behavior, usually stricter than normal public places, and here, anyway, stricter than public school behavior. Joe
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Robert Galloway responds:

Are we going to get them all, then? North Korea is next? Or...?
You, and some other neocons, might take a fast read through: http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/Press10_21_04.pdf
Watch the wrap.
Charlie Self "Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure." Ambrose Bierce
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A quote from a wacko in rec.boats: "All Arabs are either terrorists or sympathizers". I'm sure he'll expand that to include Koreans soon.
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These are some mighty fine sentiments and worthy of meditation but it needs some editing.....
Democrat, Republican, Green, Independent, Libertarian, left, right, center, liberal, moderate, conservative, rich, poor, gay, straight, black, white, brown, male, female, pro-life, pro-choice we're a mixed bag, but we're all Americans with the freedoms to form opinions. This doesn't necessarily mean all opinions are valid.
No individual, party or ideology has cornered the market on truth or God's blessing but all have a reason for their beliefs.
Dying soldiers in all countries die for a reason.
Any child killed by war, poverty, abuse or neglect is one too many. Every chance this may happen is one chance to many.
Fear is our worst enemy. Those who would scare us are not our friends. It must not cripple us.
9/11 was a tragic event. Some things changed. Some things remained the same Some grew worse. Some grew better.
Killing innocents in any war right or wrong is unavoidable.
Those most distant from a conflict are the ones in the best position to see clearly.
War doesn't always lead to peace. Peace rarely comes without it.
Anyone who impugns your patriotism for exercising your constitutional right to free speech is exercising their right for the same. In a true democracy, all points of view are heard. Not all are unilaterally valued.
Love is the core value of man. Various faiths and beliefs render it impossible for all men to love each other. Only intolerance for the intolerable can allow for tolerance for the tolerable. Defining that which is equally intolerable by all men and taking measures to limit it is the only way we can establish the closest thing to true peace we will ever know here on this earth. .
Every vote counts, and every vote should be counted.
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snip valid opinions

Only if the electoral college is eliminated. After all, it is the 21st century where it's damn near impossible not to be able to get somewhere to vote. The EC is way out dated.
Gary
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be
That's not what the EC is for. The EC prevents politicians from pandering to the 6 or so major population centers where most Americans live, and ignoring the the rest of the country. I guess I should say "disenfranchising" instead of "ignoring" since this is the catchword of the day.
dwhite
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be
?? Damn! ... is the grasp of US constitutional history that obviously lacking since they stopped teaching citizenship in schools? It is no wonder the country is in the state it's in.
The US specifically has a republican form of government, not a democracy, and the electoral college was one of those institutions, as well as the popular election of representatives who in turn make the laws, specifically instituted to discourage rule by majority.
Quoting one of the founding fathers, and the biggest proponent of the EC, in the Federalist Papers:
"...a well-constructed Union" must, above all else, "break and control the violence of faction," especially "the superior force of an . . . overbearing majority." In any democracy, a majority's power threatens minorities. It threatens their rights, their property, and sometimes their lives."
Just ask any black/japanese American whether they recognize what the "tyranny of the majority" in a democracy can do.
It appears that it's high time they start teaching civics, constitutional history, and citizenship in the schools again!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/04/04
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Swingman wrote:

Civics lesson accepted. I keep forgetting this is supposed to be a Republic. It's been a while since I've had any history anything and the US media as well as the politicians cram democracy down our throat.
I'm not whining about the last election. I voted for Bush.
Still the fact remains that I believe the EC needs to be eliminated. The majority of the US populous lives outside of the six major metro areas so I think your reasoning may be a little flawed (IMO) but valid in the fact that the rest of the populous wouldn't be subjected to the political banter going on currently (maybe that would be a good thing???). When a state is split 50.5 to 49.5 (or somewhat close) I have a real problem with giving all electoral votes to one candidate. It's not representative of what the People are voting (though statistically pretty close).
If we insist on keeping the EC I think Colorado may have the right idea with splitting the EC vote (voter approval of course and barring any constitutional back lash). I see it as being more representative of the popular vote.
This opinion is just that, an opinion.
Gary
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:36:16 -0700, GeeDubb wrote:

If this was a true democracy, we'd also have to eliminate the senate as it represents the states as entities rather than an equal representation by population. The makeup of the bicameral legislature and the same representation in the electoral college are the reason the smaller states even went along with the current union - so they wouldn't be run completely over by the more populous states.
-Doug
--
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[my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between
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Swingman writes:

Oh, hush. If they do that, how will they find time to teach the kids how to fly, sing, swim and all that other necessary stuff? :) Or, more accurate probably, :(.
Magnet schools around here turn 16 year olds into pilots, single engine style, a really, really essential culture and business skill.
Charlie Self "Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure." Ambrose Bierce
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Only intolerance for the

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The irony about all this partisanship is, Senator Kerry has moved from the far left towards the middle, and there really isn't much difference in what either one is saying...
1. Both agree Saddam needed to go 2. Both agree the Iraqi War should continue until the objectives are met 3. Both agree health care needs reformed 4. Both agree education dollars need to be spent more wisely 5. Both agree the deficet can and will be reduced by half within 4-5 years.
They both are running on the same platforms, just different ways to complete the above 5. Senator Kerry will use tax dollars to achieve item #3 and President Bush wants to limit litigation (and working in healthcare, this is LONG overdue!).
I'll be voting Republican for the first time because I like the President's plan for health care reform and his modernization of Retirement accounts (I'm locked in IRAs which are tied to the stock market; I want to be able to that and/or my Social Security and have an option to invest it in similar retirement accounts that employees of GM/Ford/Chrysler receive. The President is correct: the days of Dad working 30 years and getting his pension and Mom staying at home is over, but our retirement systems have not up with the times. Most Americans do not have pensions anymore...and it's nice to see someone step up to the plate and want to tackle it.
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