OT: Motorheads. (Leon?)

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I KNOW this is a woodworking site. I also know some of you appreciate this kinda nonsense.
For that little maintenance on that Saturday afternoon under that shady tree in the back-yard. Give that little kanutin valve a tweak with the giggle-pin and way you go. I just had to share this with a few of you dorkers.
Yup. It is a diesel. 650HP, approx 1000 ft/lbs of torque. (Check those dual intercoolers on either side.) Tested very well for 24 hours at LeMans.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Robatoy/Horsies.jpg
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For anybody who wants a more detailed (larger) image
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Robatoy/AUDI_R10_02.jpg
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Fri, May 18, 2007, 8:56pm (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@topworks.ca (Robatoy) doth posteth: <snip> Yup. It is a diesel. 650HP, approx 1000 ft/lbs of torque. <snip>
It's OK, but I'd like to find one of these, so I could put it in a Jeep.
http://www.wsrhs.org/pict/motora.jpg
JOAT What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new humiliations? - Peter Egan
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Very cool!
Diesels are starting to get installed in light aircraft, as well as race cars.
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My daughter runs a diesel VW. A friend runs a 5-cyl turbo in his Benz wagon... both great touring cars. We drove that 300TD from Rochester NY to Montreal and back and you'd never-ever know that was an oil burner. Quiet, smooth as silk. I'm a believer.
A bit smelly perhaps. That famous knocking sound of a diesel might be a bit disconcerting whilst idling along a runway though..<G>... and then that puff of smoke on take-off...
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They run on Jet-A (kerosene), so they're not too bad, but I've only seen one. <G>
Diesels have added safety factors of no carb ice, no electrical system, and less water in fuel issues, so I'm surprised it took so long. I would imagine that they could also run higher prop pitches at lower RPM, which would result in a quieter plane. Lots of noise comes from supersonic propeller tips.
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Not quite true that the diesels don't require electrical in planes, as shown by an accident involving a Diamond DA-42 in Speyer Germany earlier this year.
The DA-42 has an computerized electronic fuel control system. Kill the electrical system and the engines stop right now. What happened in the above accident was that, essentially, someone left the lights on. The pilots got it started by jump starting both engines. At take-off time, the battery (or batteries) were still pretty flat, and when they brought the landing gear up, the surge was enough to kill the fuel control computer and flame out both engines. Both Thilert (maker of the engines) and Diamond are looking at the problem.
And diesels in planes aren't necessarily new. Jumo made diesel engines for some of the larger Messerschmits during WWII. The were heavy though. Its only with modern metallurgy that diesels are starting to be made light enough for practical use in planes.
--
Frank 'propeller head' Stutzman


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wrote:

Don't they also have glow plugs or some thing like that to aid in starting a cold engine?
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On Sat, 19 May 2007 17:36:12 -0500, "Leon"

Yes.
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On Sat, 19 May 2007 21:03:01 +0000 (UTC), Frank Stutzman

That was a FADEC issue and not necessarily related to the fact that the engine was a diesel, no? I was referring to the lack of magnetos and plugs when compared to gasoline burners.
I read the DA42 accident report, and it seemed that if the engines had manual controls, ala an experimental Cessna diesel conversion I've been hearing about, propulsion power would have been available.
No juice will kill any FADEC operated engine.
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True, strictly speaking it was the control system that failed and thereby killed the engines. However, as I understand it (and I could well be wrong) Thilert was unable to get the engines FAA certified without the FADEC.
It could be done without the FADEC (as in the cessna case), but getting it approved by the FAA may prove to be a bigger problem than its worth.
--
Frank Stutzman



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On Sun, 20 May 2007 05:16:55 +0000 (UTC), Frank Stutzman

Have you heard or read what the FAA's concerns were without FADEC?
It's not like a screwy or dead FADEC system has _never_ shut down a turbine or gasoline piston engine. You'd think the simplicity of the diesel would be a plus.
I know the Cessna was flying around as an experimental, working toward certification and a possible STC.
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Sat, May 19, 2007, 3:04pm snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (BARRY) doth sayeth: They run on Jet-A (kerosene), so they're not too bad, but I've only seen one. <G> Diesels have added safety factors of no carb ice, no electrical system, <snip>
Unless you've got a very small, hand started, Diesel, it's pretty much a given you've got some type of an electrical syste there somewhere. How about absolutely NO electrical system needed if so desired (starting with only a match possible), and the capability to run on about ANY burnale fuel? http://www.airbornegrafix.com/HistoricAircraft/ThingsWings/Besler.htm
JOAT What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new humiliations? - Peter Egan
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On Sun, 20 May 2007 16:16:12 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

Not once it's running, vs. magnetos and plugs on the gas engine.
Gasoline powered piston aircraft typically have multiple electric systems.
The "airframe" electrical system (possibly one of several) includes alternators or generators, batteries, electric items like radios, lights, ice protection, and electric fuel boost pumps, and the engine starter. This can all be shut off with a master switch independent of propulsion. If you turn the key to start the engine with the master off, the starter won't crank, but you'll look like an idiot. <G>
The "propulsion" electrical system includes the mags and plugs. You can actually shut off the master electrics off in flight with no effect on a manually controlled engine. It'll keep cranking along, and you can still operate the throttle(s) mixture, and carb heat controls. There are usually two magnetos powering one plug in each cylinder for two plugs per. This is actually for performance reasons, not reliability. Running the engine on one of the two magnetos will result in ~75-125 RPM drop. This doesn't sound significant to car guys, but it can make a difference during level flight near max gross weight and a big one during climb.
I'd put glow plugs and starters on a diesel into the "airframe" category, because it's no longer needed once the engine starts. The diesel powered craft that Frank mentioned in regards to a crash had FADEC, Full Authority Digital Engine Control, which allows a computer to maintain mixture and other engine settings (kinda' like a modern car), and facilitates throttle control with an autopilot. When FADEC fails hard, so often does the propulsion, but this isn't a diesel only issue, as it can happen with gasoline pistons or turbines that employ it.
In reliability speak, failing to start is very minor compared to failing in flight, as it's easier to "not fly" if you're already on the ground. <G> The guys in the crash jump started a dead twin-engine airplane only to have the airframe electrics quit in flight, taking the digitally controlled engines out as well.
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snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:
> Unless you've got a very small, hand started, Diesel, it's pretty > much a given you've got some type of an electrical syste there > somewhere.
Actually there are several ways to start a diesel, including wind up spring and pneumatic, especially larger diesels such as those found on ore boats in the Great Lakes and sea going ships which usually use pneumatic.
Once you get a diesel running, there are only two (2) ways to stop it.
You either cut off the fuel supply or the air supply or both.
Don't do it right and that puppy can consume it's own lube oil which usually yields very expensive results.
Lew
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Sun, May 20, 2007, 10:45pm (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net (LewHodgett) doth sayeth: Actually there are several ways to start a diesel, <snip>
Well, actually, I knew there "were" other ways, just not sure what. Which was why I weasld and said "pretty much of a given", instead of saying "a given". Hehehe Pneumatic I did know. But to nit pick I know that at least one of those "other" systems call for electric.
JOAT What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new humiliations? - Peter Egan
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Sun, May 20, 2007, 10:34pm (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (BARRY) doth sayeth: Not once it's running, vs. magnetos and plugs on the gas engine. <snip>
I wasn't counting "after" it was runnng, but to "get" it runing. You normally need electric to get those plugs glowing, and an electric starter to turn the thing over.
JOAT What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new humiliations? - Peter Egan
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Your friend should investigate modifying his Benz to run on vegetable oil. Gets rid of the diesel smell and cuts the fuel bill down considerably.
Since buying and modifying my own 300TD we've paid for maybe 2 tanks of fuel tops.
And that was only because we took it on a road trip and didn't want to carry all the extra veggie oil. With some better advance planning we could have easily arranged to buy either new or filtered veggie oil along the way.
Nice thing about the modification is that I can still run petro diesel or bio-diesel if need be.
John E.
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wrote:

And, it goes without saying of course, that you write a check to the government for the road tax on each gallon of that veggie oil that you burn. Otherwise, isn't it sort of like using off-road diesel fuel in highway vehicles? The PTB really frown on that practice.
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On Sun, 20 May 2007 13:11:35 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:

We've got a bunch of bio-diesels in my area, including a few private busses. They get lots of press coverage with no complaints from the tax people so far.
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