OT - middle ages?

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wrote:

SAMs
aircraft
Oops. Guess you were wrong on that one. Apparently they also fired AAA. I'm sure the American pilots take great relief in only having AAA fired at them instead of missiles. I'm sure they also feel that being illuminated is just a really fun game. How about this? I stand outside your house and point a loaded M16 at your head. I don't shoot, just point it at you. Does that make you feel good? Would you consider that an overtly aggressive act? Don't be a stooge and start splitting hairs over whether Iraq fired missles or AAA or just a few missiles or "hey, they just illuminated our planes". The fact is they shouldn't have been doing shit.
todd
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is
Does
act?
missles
The fact is, the no-fly zones (which covered almost 2/3's of Iraq) were imposed on Iraq by the US, Britain, and France, not the UN. There is no UN Security Council resolution that sanctions the no-fly zones (in other words the no-fly zones were illegal under international law) and the Iraqi's had every right to defend their sovereignty by firing on aircraft invading their airspace.
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Under international law (as if that is worth the paper it's printed on ) illumination by a targeting radar is a hostile act, like firing a shot across the bow.
Search radar is not.
wrote:

is
Does
act?
missles
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On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:04:04 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
Of course Iraq fired missiles. And if they did it twice (over a decade), then I guess that counts as repeatedly. But you're trying to inflate this into "going downtown", when it was anything but. The allied forces had effective air superiority over the whole of Iraq, and maintained it for years.
The one time this was allowed deliberately to lapse was, oddly enough, when Iraqi helicopters were allowed to destroy those anti-Saddam forces that were inspired to rie up in '91, then hung out in the breeze to be wiped out.

Why not ? It was a sovereign country after all, and US and UK aircraft were engaged in bombing it. I'm not disputing the positive benefits of doing so, but the legal basis on which it was carried out was _extremely_ thin.
--
Smert' spamionam

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On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:48:08 +0100, Andy Dingley wrote:

Well, it was more than twice. here's a SAM firing from 1996:
    <http://www.emergency.com/iraqusa.htm
And here's 20 more from late '98 and '99:
    <http://www.afa.org/magazine/July2000/0700deploy_print.html
And here's couple more with one SAM fired at a plane in Kuwaiti territory:
    <http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b5f5a7342af.htm
How much is enough?
-Doug
--
"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples
then you and I will still each have one apple.
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Yeah, that's kinda like what the Redcoats said when those damn colonists refused to wear bright clothes and walk slowly toward them all grouped together. They were certainly able to say that they fought a "civilized" war while those ignorant, nasty rebel colonists hid behind trees. You see where fighting in a civlilized way got the British don't you?
Dave Hall
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John McCoy responds:

It does seem to me that we lack the high ground when we react as our enemies do. Yes, this is a different kind of enemy. Yes, it would be easier to do it their way in retaliation. But where on earth did anyone get the idea it was going to be easy, anyway? From our pols? From Mr. "I'll Bring Morality Back to Government" Bush?
Talking to a friend who is 'Nam combat vet (USMC, Tet and a bunch else), and he and I find some agreement. We're in ANOTHER quagmire like 'Nam, with no resolution in sight. We do seem to develop leaders who have this type of blindness, right across party lines.
Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
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Leon writes:

Neither can we, Leon.
Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
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Larry Blanchard wrote:

These are some of the Republican family values that I read about.     j4
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wrote:

Frankly, I'm appalled, and I wish the President would promptly and publicly repudiate those memos and dismiss the people that wrote them.

I agree.

Yep.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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It's not the president's job to poll every Tom, Dick, and Harry, to decide what's right. Since he was elected, let him do the job as he sees fit.
dave
Doug Miller wrote:

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just to add; when YOU get elected, you can do things YOUR way, Dougie.
dave
Bay Area Dave wrote:

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I am going to stand squarely beside you on this one Dave. Imagine how much could be accomplished by our government if it was not always at war with itself. Republicans against the Democrats. Democrats against Republicans. To hell with what is right or good for the people as long as one party wins over the other party. I blows me away that both parties think that we cannot see this all this crap for what it really is, school yard bickering. If the government had to make a profit all this BS would come to a screeching halt. We have lost a great leader and my deepest respect and sympathy goes to the Ragan family. Why does it take something like this for the two parties to work cooperatively together?
But back to the point your were making, if we the people would give the president, "any of our presidents" respect and work with him and not fight him tooth and nail all the way because he is not a member of the correct party, things would be a lot better. If he screws up, we replace him like we did with Carter and how we would have done with Nixon had he pulled that crap in his first term and had he not decided to resign. I think we as Americans have learned to bitch too much and not do anything to help solve the problems.
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I agree with your entire statement. There are too many folks eager to armchair quarterback every presidential move.
What galls me the most though, is the lack of unity we display to the rest of the world. Some of the politicians act more like traitors than public servants, IMHO. I get disgusted with the likes of Kennedy. He should stick to something he does best; drinking.
dave
Leon wrote:

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Yeah.... While the jokes about our politicians are funny, and I like Leno as much as the next guy, this, "free speech" does not send the right message. Who of any intelligence would want the job with all the ridicule. If we treat them with respect we might get some talent in there.
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Just the other day, Olive Oyl told me she was wonderin' why you haven't been visitin' much lately. ;)
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
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wrote:

Ugh gug gug gug gug... Brutus has been keeping me busy. '~)
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No, how about holding him to the standards of the Constitution ? There are limits, even for a president.
I envy the US its constitution, and the fabled "checks and balances" of its government. On the whole I prefer the UK's political system to that of the USA, but your founding fathers did a damn good job on this bit.
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"Andy Dingley" wrote in message

Despite all you read/hear, don't suppose for a second that both the legistlative and judicial branches will NOT see to that, particularly considering the current political climate.

We think so also ... and many thanks to you POME's. ;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/15/04
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Andy Dingley wrote:

They didn't do badly at all, did they? But, Andy, let's not forget the heritage(s) from which they drew many of their best ideas...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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