OT:Letter to Southern Califonia newspaper that was not printed

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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:00:44 +0100, "Graham Walters"

Okay, Senator McCarthy- I thought that old invective went out quite a while ago. It was a war, people got killed- many of them for nothing more than refusing to go along with the revolutionaries. I don't see that acknowledging the existance of collateral damage has anything to do with communism. If anything, following the party line by closing one's eyes and ears and humming propoganda is the communist ethic- not the skepticism that is the bedrock of any society that intends to remain free. If we whitewash the founders and put their sepia-toned portraits on our walls with the idea that they were infallable supermen, we simply prepare ourselves to be made into tools of any criminal with the ability to spout chapter and verse at us. Always question everything- and stop listening to that retarded jingoist country music, for god's sake. It's embarassing, especially when our current government seems dead set on turning the entire planet into an endless procession of smoking ruins alternating with strip malls and oil wells.

They do- but not in third grade social studies. I'd imagine things are pretty much the same everywhere, people hear what they are interested in, and tune out the rest.

Well, I won't argue that we're getting premium straight information in the US, but it would stand to reason in my mind that the first US president was G. Washington, for the same reason that our primary legal document is the US Constitution, and not the Magna Carta. Whomever controlled the US under the Articles of Confederation is largely irrelevent, as they were drafted as a temporary form of government that was discarded in favor of the Constitution. When the Articles were replaced by the Constitution, it was a radical enough change to argue that the modern US began as a country when the Constitution was ratified- where it had simply been a loose alliance of rebellious colonies before that time.
While it's always interesting to know how things got to be the way they are today, that does not make obscure historical claims a basis for denying the validity of the longest lived government on the face of the planet. You may as well demand that the US be returned to England because with the advent of modern telecommunications, the founders' argument that the colonies existed in a "state of nature" due to the extreme lengths of time required for communication with the ruling government is no longer valid, and it's time to toss the whole deal in the trash and come back into mother England's fold.
There are thousands of books published in the US about the founding fathers, and most of them do not sugar coat the events surrounding the revolution- believe it or not, our press is still free enough to point out the embarassing personality flaws and outright hypocracy of many of those grand old patriarchs, as well as go into horrendously minute detail about every signifigant event of every meeting and public action during that time period. They took good records, and all that information is still floating around- but not one that I have encountered (and I've read a lot of them) has the poor sense to claim that the elected representatives under the Articles of Confederation were members of the modern US government. Go ahead and believe what you like, but it was not the same country under those two wildly different sets of rules. It's even arguable that the US is not the same country is was prior to the Civil war, when so many things changed that the old system hardly resembles the current one.
Anyway- I'm done now. By all means, hash it around a bit- but you're falling into an obscure side road that dead-ended over 200 years ago. Hardly the basis for a sensible discussion about anything except that one short period of time. Now if you want to bash the US propoganda machine, there are any number of more contemporary examples around- including the "commie pinko bedwetter" nonsense that was at the head of this post. (Yes, I am aware that you were not the one who posted that, but I deleted the header on that bit by accident)
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I have never given money to the IRA. Maybe guns, ammo, C4, but never money ;)
--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
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Graham Walters wrote:

Actually, if you count presidents of the Continental Congress, which is what he was, there being no nation called the "United States" until after adoption of the Constitution, then John Hanson was the _third_.

So if some random netloon can't get a thing like that right what chance is there that any other information he provides is correct?

Why is it that someone who makes a great show of his own ignorance then comments on others "resorting to namecalling"?
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
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Graham Walters wrote:

John Hanson was the First President of the Continental Congress of the United States of America. George Washington was the First President of the Untied States of America.
The President of the Continental Congress had no executive authority outside of that body. They was not at all the same office, despite the similarity of title.
--

FF


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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Now you've gone from reasoning to invective. Shame. No, the founding fathers were not terrorists. Yes, there were instances of "terrorist" mobs assaulting citizens who disagreed with them - on both sides. It has been pointed out by historians that the only reason the American revolution did not have a "reign of terror" like the French, British, and Russian revolutions was that our population was too small and too dispersed to support the kind of mass hysteria required.
I agree with you, and the original poster, on the immigration issue. One point, however, was left out. When the earlier waves of immigration arrived, we were underpopulated. Now we're overpopulated.
-- It's turtles, all the way down
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Larry Blanchard wrote:

http://www.coyotescorner.com/tshirts-hs2.htm
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jerry wrote:

If the point of your directing me to a site for t-shirts was to imply that the continent was fully populated before the Europeans arrived, you're the one who's wrong. A few million (if that many) inhabitants does not constitute overpopulation.
But the site did have some neat t-shirts. If you're one of the owners, you're spamming :-).
--
It's turtles, all the way down

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It's been over 200 years. Get over it Graham, you lost.
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Amen!!!!! It's time we took America back.
snipped-for-privacy@vcoms.net wrote:

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Amen!!!!! It's time we took America back.
snipped-for-privacy@vcoms.net wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@vcoms.net wrote: <snip>
Save your breath and your flames.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/newimmigrants.asp
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snipped-for-privacy@vcoms.net wrote:

Please tell you wife Rosemary that posting chain letters like this is contrary to your ISP's AUP.
--

FF


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Well if it against the AUP that's all good however something like this is more acceptable to me then the posting of copywriten and or pirated software that is seen so much on these things. Don't you agree?
Al

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Al wrote:

Chlamydia is better than gonorrhea, don't you agree?
--

FF


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No there is a comparison, Those are to illnesses that are terrible to deal with however if you play you might end up paying. So back in the world of News groups and internet where my comment was directed as to the subjects. Freedom of speech in this country is a right, steeling someone else's property is not acceptable in any country and in some cases the property owner will shoot the crook with my regards, I hate thief's. As someone that created a program to use at my last place of employment where as the owner tried to claim they owned my software solely created at my home on my time. This particular comment on my side hits very close to home, btw I have the only copies of my software goto love FDISK on a system with all your software on it! So free speech go for it, steeling forget it. It would make someone wonder where someone else's moral boundaries are. You can do what you want I know I have a clear conscious when it comes to this topic.
Al
Once again pinions are like A@#wholes everyone has one including me!
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Al wrote:

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Ok, you don't agree that chlamydia is better than gonorrhea, though I am not clear as to why not.
I am quite sure that you understood the analogy and my reason for presenting it so I will address your comments regarding theft.
USENET is not public. NNTP traffic is carried over both private and public servers, bu tmostly it is carried over private networks.
USENET is organized into newsgroups by topic. The purpose being that when people read USENET they can chose the topic they wish to read. People pay, directly or indirectly for USENET access and reading UENET takes their time. Posting off topic is Free Speech the same way that standing up in church to speak on a topic of your chosing, woudl be free speech. My town frequently hosts free public concerts in the town square. Once a local character, starting speaking out during the concert. The police arrived, and he quieted down. No arrest was made. But plainly, even though he was speaking in a public place, his right to free speech did not supercede the right of the rest of us to quietly enjoy the scheduled activities.
Your right to speak freely on the internet is, to an extent, superceded by my right to quietly enjoy the internet access for which I paid. If you want to post a political rant, fine, post it in a political rant newsgroup.
People who post off-topic, especially spammers like OP, who spam USENET with ficticious political claptrap are thieves. They steal the money and time of the USENET readership. They only steal a little from each, but theft it remains.
--

FF


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So basically you stating that one must obey the AUP but its ok to steal!... Your awesome keep up the good work! As far as stealing your money or time that's BS and you know it. Do you have filters? Then filter anyone or thing you want. I do block people who post things that are copywritten or vulgar as I don't want my grand kids to see them. I see you are not against criminal acts just freedom of speech. What a guy! I am glad to have met someone of your caliber it has made such an impact on our lives. As far as posting in the proper ng hmmm rec.woodworking,alt.home.repair I just don't see anything about allowing electronic piracy here. As for stating the obvious you are definitely in one minds set and not willing to see that yet they both may be posted in the wrong group speech and electronic piracy are two different things. One is legal and a freedom we value the other is a criminal offence and is punishable in most countries, whether they enforce it to a great extent who knows. Obviously the right to steal is more important to some then the right to freedom of speech.
No need to respond I am done with this childish rant. I know where I stand being the more adult here I will stop because it's going no where. Some people are just meant to be criminals I guess. lol to quote a man of logic, "Live long and prosper".
adios amigo
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Al wrote:

No, nor did I say it was OK to lie about what I wrote.
--

FF


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No one lied.
Al

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This is off-topic for rec.woodworking and alt.home.repair so I've set followups accrdingly. Or if you prefer, we can take this to email.
Al wrote:

It appears that you lied when you wrote:
"So basically you stating that one must obey the AUP but its ok to steal!..."
But, since it also appears that English is not your first language perhaps you did not understand the article. I suggest you review it.
There are few things as offensive as lying about what someone has said. I hope you were merely mistaken.
--

FF


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