OT - It has become apparent ...

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Lew Hodgett wrote:

When it gets too large, alternatives should pop up like wild maple trees. I say "should" because government involvement can always throw a monkey wrench in the gears of the free market.

If he has his own ax to grind, why would his figures mean anything? I saw him on TV pimping natural gas, so I figure he is selling natural gas? Not that there is anything wrong with him selling gas or using natural gas, but for some reason, I think he has more invested than save the world, save the country type stuff. Am I wrong?

That is a nasty tax, but our own country taxes the hell out of that $700M also. Watch what happens when all that tax money goes away and everyone is driving "cheap" electric cars. Do you think your wonderful government will simply eat that huge (windfall profit) tax loss?

There is already a ton of alternative energy, and much more on the way, particularly if big brothers stays out of the way.

True, but then the cost of gasoline doesn't need to be artificially inflated. Normal supply and demand will take care of it all, just as it has for most products not controlled by government and monopolies. Microsoft comes to mind first and fore most when thinking of getting screwed by a monopoly...

Depends on your definition of "cheap". If the government taxes the shit out of each gallon of gas you buy, and pays you to run inefficient solar or wind power, things can get out of whack in a hurry. On the other hand, if Morris comes up with an efficient solar panel, or wind turbine or anything that is better than oil, it will be available simply do to supply and demand that always works well over the long run, with minimum government involvement.

That time seldom needs defined by Big Brother.

The only time you need government to get involved in this crap is if someone monopolizes things (like Microsoft has the OS market) Otherwise, there are plenty of capitalists willing to take the risk of getting rich on alternate energy systems that make sense.

Private capital is always right around the corner, looking for ways to get rich making you happy.
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Jack
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Jack Stein wrote: ...

No, you're not wrong... :) (or, :(, I'm not sure, actually which...)
The side effect of wind generation is that one will need far more reserve generation owing to the unsteady nature of the fuel source (the wind).
Now, guess what's the most likely/convenient/lowest-initial-cost generation capacity w/ the facility to have the required very rapid ramp rates????
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Morris,
There is a new refinery being built in Douglas, WY and also one in Tulsa, OK.
I'd like to comment on the "no new refineries have been built in the last 30 years" line. What is being left out is that existing refineries have expanded so as to be equivalent to having built ten new refineries.
Also, the "let's build new refineries" line needs some consideration. Let's not build too many. What happens when a scarce resource (crude oil) is sought by 'x' number of businesses (refineries) and then several new businesses come along wanting to have that same scarce resource. That's right! The bidding begins and the price goes up.
I won't get into 'the oil companies know we are in a post-peak oil period and don't want to build refineries that will soon not have enough resources to operate at near maximum capacity."
(Is peak oil my hobby? Yes. I read Matt Savinar and James Howard Kunstler; and Energy Bulletin and Running on Empty2 (Yahoo groups) and Energy Resources (Yahoo groups). I've read Twilight in the Desert, The Road, and World Made by Hand.)
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Morris Dovey wrote:

Saw this mentioned in a TV commercial yesterday
Marathon is spending $3.2 billion on the project that will expand the crude oil refining capacity by 180,000 barrels of oil per day http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20070308/ai_n18712309
Rod
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