OT - It has become apparent ...

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"todd" wrote:

Face it, politics or AK47's at 10 paces.
Tyhe present tactic of confrontation for confortation's sake is about like failing at windmills per Don Quoite.
It doesn't get it done in a civilized society.

Don't think anybody thinks it is an end all, but it is a start.

You said it.
Lew
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todd wrote:

Thank you for not puking on /my/ shoes. :-\
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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Frank Boettcher wrote:

Amen to that. Unless of course he meant governments responsibility to keep terrorists and others from traipsing across our borders to blow stuff up, or insuring that all business is on a level playing field, taxed equally and not monopolizing markets or simply invading our country to change it's capitalistic nature, or not printing money whenever it feels like it needs to spend another trillion on stupid, unneeded projects...
Somehow I think he is closer to thinking government should seize control of business and decide for us what is best as private business and the individual are too stupid to figure out whats works best.
I'm probably reading too much into it, what the heck...
--
Jack
http://jbstein.com
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@comcast.net says...

From reading Lew's previous comments, I think you're pretty much right on the money.
--
Keith

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dpb wrote:

It is worth noting Denmark's successful energy independence program......following the original oil price shocks of the 70's they embarked on a very serious plan to avoid foreign energy sources(a then 99% dependency). With little doubt they succeeded in freeing from the grip of the OPEC oil cartel......They now lead in windmill technology (20% of domestic electricity production) and use other renewable including solar, biomass and thermal ......Drilling for North sea oil did help just a little since they now export oil and they do have the highest electric and gasoline($10 gal) cost of western Europe. Houses have fewer appliances, families have fewer cars and mass transit is very popular in their tiny country. People there do a remarkable job of conserving energy, somehow with that choice between heating ones home and eating......food usually wins. Rod
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Rod & Betty Jo wrote:

I'm having a hard time buying that definition of "successful". The highest electric and gasoline costs in western Europe makes them successful?
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

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Give it up, Mark. People are laughing behind your back.
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<snip>

Yes, it makes them independent of outside energy sources. Denmark is still a successful economy, albeit small.
--
Best regards
Han
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It was very clearly successful....the are energy independent from foreign sources of energy (by drilling ironically) and lead in renewable including windmills.....that they have the most unaffordable energy in the western world is a small price (apparently) to pay for this success. As the approx. model of the Dems energy program (without the drilling) I think this on going expensive "success" should be clearly explained<G>......I do personally find it odd that the Dems solution to expensive gas/oil is more expensive alternatives and a clear aversion to increasing said supply of domestic oil........Rod
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Cut me a little slack, Lew. I've been working for a little over six years to help make it happen - first with solar heating panels to keep people warm up here in "cold country", then with direct solar-powered (non-electrical) stationary engines for pumping and (if I can get the @!%# pump running the way I think it should), direct solar-powered air-conditioning to keep people cool in "hot country". I'd have taken on more but my resources were a bit on the thin side.
The government and industry don't appear to be interested in any technology that doesn't produce ongoing revenues capable of providing mega-salaries to top execs and hundreds of millions of dollars worth of campaign contributions.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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Morris Dovey wrote: ...

I don't believe that for a minute.
You talked to EPRI or responded to DARPA or DOE RFPs on Advanced Technology? You sent concept proposals to the National Labs for cooperative research? You talked w/ various research centers/deans/department heads at State universities? Looked at the various Foundations who sponsor advanced research? There are zillions of options for funding but it does takes work to go find them.
--


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dpb wrote:

Eh? I'm not in business to produce concepts. If I were, then your suggestions would make sense.
The national labs want me to pay them. Hell - if I could afford to pay them, then I wouldn't need them at all. :-)
I've already been the university route once. It cost $80K (in 1978 dollars), resulted in proprietary technology being leaked into the public domain by people who wouldn't/couldn't respect intellectual property, and never did produce the contracted- and paid-for result. I guess I should mention that the project ran almost a year over the promised schedule and terminated because there was no way to continue funding the (unproductive) effort. Ugh - I'm not interested in repeating that experience. It's a "doesn't work in the real world" because the people involved don't have any skin in the game.
There /are/ a zillion options for donating both what I already have and what I'm working on - and bloody few for promoting what's already completed and for accelerating development of proven concepts into finished (marketable) products.
My projects aren't the point though, it's the entire approach to the alternative energy that's incredibly inadequate, and I've lost hope that anything will change significantly until there is a bona fide crisis. We just don't have enough Pickens-types to get the job done.
I'll keep at it until I burn out, then dumpster the works and enjoy the retirement I should have started in July of 2007.
I haven't minded the work to find options, but finding is the easiest part - it's the overhead they bring with them that's the killer.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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Morris Dovey wrote:

I was talking the incubation centers more than paid research from either...there are at least 30 new startups in the Oak Ridge, TN, area that are a byproduct of guys w/ ideas w/ the UT/ORNL incubation process that are going concerns.
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"Morris Dovey" wrote:

Taking on a project as committee of one is like pushing on a rope.
It's a tough process.
Have you tried to seek out R&D funds from private foundations or gov't research grants?
Lots of digging req'd, but funds are out there.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Tell me about it! Still, I've managed to push a couple of pieces of this rope farther than I expected when I started.

Private foundations - no. Government grants - yes, until it was made clear that I'd need to spend more than half of my time providing proof that I was sticking to a well-defined action/budget plan that had to be nailed down before the funds would be made available - and until I learned that any deviation (for example, shifting resources from an activity that needed less to complete than budgeted to another that needed more than budgeted) from that plan could land me in prison. Two other items that couldn't be covered by the grant were construction (necessary for testing) and advertising (essential to commercialization). I said thanks and backed away.

I don't have a lot of time available for digging, but I'm sure you're right. So far, the sources I've found have all had an associated overhead that would slow, rather than accelerate, the work to be done. I figure I'm already going slow enough.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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"Morris Dovey" wrote:

At this poimt in time, what is your objective?
Has it changed from when you started?
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

[1] Produce an inexpensive, maintenance-free, extended-service, multi-horsepower engine that performs direct conversion of solar radiation to mechanical energy.
[2] Use that technology to implement an inexpensive, maintenance-free, extended-service pump capable of moving air and/or fluids using only direct conversion of solar radiation to mechanical energy.
[3] Use both of the above to implement an inexpensive, maintenance-free, extended-service cooling/refrigeration system using only direct conversion of solar radiation to mechanical energy.

The original goal was to identify practical ways to improve availability and quality of food and shelter worldwide using already known technology which did not depend on the existence of any energy infrastructure.
That goal diverged into two fairly broad 'sub-problems':
[1] Keeping dwelling temperatures within some reasonable temperature bounds, and
[2] dealing with the problem that the food-supply depends highly on water - and that the water is all too frequently in the 'wrong' place.
The only universal energy source I could identify was solar. The first goal made the obvious split into:
[1a] Solar heating, and
[1b] Solar cooling.
The first of these has been solved with a passive solar panel that is so efficient it could be labeled "stealthy" - it eats radiant energy at all wavelengths from UV to HF radio (I don't have a way to test LF and VLF) with a remarkable efficiency - and it'll do that without moving parts, without electricity, and without fuel anywhere between the Arctic Circle and the Tropic of Cancer, and between the Tropic of Capricorn and the Antarctic Circle.
Interestingly [1b] and [2] appear to be so closely related that their solutions can use not only the same technology, but much of the same hardware. Anyone who's interested in getting a glimpse of how this stuff is shaping up is invited to browse through the pages linked below.
HTH
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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"Morris Dovey" wrote:

Sounds like you need what we used to call a "Rabbi", AKA: Someone who can give you air cover and tell you where the "bombs" are planted.
If you have put together a good game plan, somebody like P Allen (Microsoft founder) might be interested.
He has been supporting Rutan and his companies space research here in SoCal.
Just a thought.
Today, a private foundation might be the most productive.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Perhaps. Thanks for your thoughts.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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Morris Dovey wrote:

...
Which was also one of those in previous sources of funding I gave... :)
I'll reiterate EPRI (their actual name these days but the entity formerly known as the Electric Power Research Institute) is always looking for good ideas to fund. They're self-funded by (mostly) member electric utilities. Spent quite a number of years w/ them as primary client altho my specialty was I&C-related as pertained to advanced controls/instrumentation of interest to the utilities. Last project before retiring back to the family farm after Dad died was pulverized coal flow measurement via turbulent noise and unique signal processing. The intent is to go from concept to the device--at the time I left and passed the work to colleagues, DOE had just picked up a sizable fraction of the next step to fund a series of tests at the coal flow facility EPRI was building. All again to indicate there's $$ for ideas w/ merit and that have an end payoff.
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