Well no crap, that's why we should have flat tax too, make the upper
echelon pay their fair share. We agree on this 100%
I will not bore you with my education about this, but I do have more than
Ooooookayyyyy.... I'll take your word for it :-). Seriously, maybe we
disagree because, in the context of your flat-tax argument, some people
would be taxed more, some less (this is the "lower taxes" part). The
increased revenue from those who would be taxed more would more than make
up the lost revenue from those who would be taxed less. I certainly buy
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:03:45 +0000, gabriel wrote:
A flat tax would result in the upper "echelons" paying less than they
currently pay and the lower wage earners paying more than they currently
pay. Most flat tax proposals exempt some initial amount of earnings to
ease the burden on low income earners.
Sorry, but rich people pay peanuts. If you want to believe they pay
their share, that's fine, but even some rich people, like Warren Buffet,
think they should be paying their fair share (he was against the "farm-
saving" estate tax elimination [as was Bill Gates] and was against the
supid frozen property taxes in California).
If a millionnaire sets up a charitable non-profit fund for the benefit
of his family, then gives all his money to the fund, how much does he
pay in taxes? Nothing, because he donated everything to charity. I
know it's not that simple, but that's the idea.
Get rid of the loopholes and instill a flat tax!
LOL, I'm sounding like a para-revolutionary idiot!
Just trying to keep it light-hearted... It's not like this discussion will
So hopefully no one feels insulted by all this nonsense.
After all, we're all woodworkers and this is a woodworking group, right?
Peanuts? In 2001 the:
Top 10% Paid 68.2% of Federal Taxes
Top 5% Paid 56.6%
Top 1% Paid 35.9%
To suggest that they are not paying their fair share is obsurd.
How would you like to pay the same percentage of your income in taxes?
Ah, and you bring up a common fallacy when looking at the issue this way:
This does NOT suggest that the rich (or high-earners, more appropriately)
pay their fair share of taxes, it merely shows what the numbers of paid
taxes add up to. Where's the column for pre-deduction gross income?
In other words, on paper, the top 1% earned $1402B, and paid $361B in
taxes, or 26%. This seems fair at first glance, doesn't it? What the
numbers do not show, is what the true raw income is of that top 1%. The
$1402B number is _after_ all the loopholes and deductions (ie, charitable
donations to their own non-profits), and also after all attempts to
divert earnings through other channels (corporations, off-shore, etc...).
There is an entire mechanism in place to keep the numbers you gave as
they are: Giving the impression that the rich pay their fair share. Tax
shelters, finance organizers, loophole artists/consultants, etc... they
were even highlighted on a recent issue of BusinessWeek, ironically, one
of the loophole artists highlighted in the article made a call for the
loopholes to be closed!
Cammon you know you are comparing apples to oranges. The numbers you
gave are not percentages of income paid as taxes. Actually, though, I do
pay a higher percentage of my earnings than the top 1%, as shown above...
(tapping on the desktop wondering if I really want to get involved in this
thread....awww...what the heck..)
no numbers or percentages...no demand for fairness...just an
observation...if I wasn't working for a rich man I probably wouldn't be
working. So please...by all means Mr. Rich Man, take your loopholes of
which my salary is part of and just keep passing it on down. Best advice
I've ever heard was stop worrying about what you pay in taxes and worry
about what you make in income.
How much do you think is their fair share? According to IRS reports,
the top 10% of wage earners pay 65% of income taxes, while they only
earn 43% of all income. The top 5% of wage earners pay 53% of income
taxes while earning only 32% of all income. The top 50% of all wage
earners pay 96% of all taxes, while earning 86% of all the income. At
what point are you going to be satisfied that the upper echelon is
paying their "fair" share?
Is that what they actually pay, or is that what they owe
before their accountants start their work?
Also, your figures don't state what percentage of income
these wage earners pay in taxes.
These 'figures' you've posted really mean nothing. Their a
small part of the story. I see them as misleading.
How about posting the link directly to your cite, I could
wade through the IRS site all day before finding what you
want me to see.
Or is that your point?
This comes under the trick of making me do the work of
proving your argument.
It's not a java site, you can post a direct link.
The information you don't want to believe is in this document:
You will observe that the top income earners are paying a higher and
higher percentage of total income tax over time.
... a statistic you will find to be much less meaningful than the
percentage of taxes paid on declared income. You have to calculate this
yourself from the same document.
What does this statistic prove, anyway: "the top income earners are paying
a higher and higher percentage of total income tax over time." I cannot
find a significance other than "there are lot of rich people in the USA."
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:52:54 +0000, gabriel wrote:
It points out that they are doing more than their fair share. I hope the
trend of more and more people migrating to higher income brackets
continues, in fact the more millionaires, the better. That's what this
country is all about.
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.