OT: I KNEW you' Merkans knew how to fix stuff:

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That's true. Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, The Carlisle Gang et al... none of them were presidents. Where did you get the idea that "those who make the decisions " were presidents?
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Robatoy wrote:

Huh?
Cheney was at one time associated with Haliburton, but Haliburton could hardly be called a "defense contractor" inasmuch as a piddly amount of their revenue ever came from the DoD. Haliburton is primarily an oilfield service company (refineries, pipelines, etc.).
Paul Wolfowitz never worked for anybody that did defense work (aside from the DoD itself).
Rumsfeld likewise was never involved with defense contracting. Outside of government, he served as CEO of a pharmaceutical company, a company that was involved in broadband transmission, and the company that developed Tamiflu.
The Carlisle Group likewise has nothing to do with the DoD. The company is a private equity and asset management firm.
You really should try to keep up.
As for who makes decisions, Bush said he was "the decider in chief," so I guess the president makes most of them.
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You are telling me that The Carlisle Group doesn't have defence contractors in their portfolio?
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Robatoy wrote:

I'm sure they do. Just like Bank of America processes checking accounts for Northrup or the New York Stock Exchange handles trades involving GE (who owns the Electric Boat Division).
Whatever Carlisle does, it is not a defense contractor. Not only are your claims wiggly, they don't even fit the narrative.
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snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMgmail.com says...

You know, this notion that anyone who holds stock in a company one doesn't like is doing evil and they should divest that stock to harm the company is stupid. If you don't like what a company is doing the way to fix it is for you and all your buddies to get together and buy as much stock in it as you can and go to the shareholders' meetings and raise holy Hell.
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J. Clarke wrote:

I agree. Success is more often accomplished by persuasion from the inside rather than agitation from the outside.
One example that comes to mind is the promise by some that if a political party doesn't support proposition "X", then the proponents will vote for some fringe candidate. The net result is the opposite side is strengthened within the party due to the defections of the opposition and the party elders are pleased to see the dissidents leave.
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I never claimed Carlisle to be a defense contractor, but if your argument is so weak that you feel the need to put words in my mouth, please continue.
Of course, by your definition, the large financial institutions have no clout/lobbies in the government either, after all, they're just people who look after your savings.
But did the institutions you mentioned have a board member such as James Baker III (yes the one who was instrumental in the (s)election of GW Bush in 2000)? Carlisle did have Baker as a board member and I'm sure nobody said: "That W can be tricked into using a lot of our products, he's not very bright being a dry drunk and all, besides Cheney is puppeteering him nicely and some of his people would like a few no-bid contracts with the pentagon...etc..." Not in your dream world, eh, Bub?
Carlisle is just a small example of a defence contractor manipulating foreign policy, as best they can, in order to benefit their shareholders.... something your party will continue to deny....again straight out of the neo-con playbook.
Eisenhower warned you people about this.
I patiently await further obfuscation from you.
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Robatoy wrote:

You said those who sometimes make decisions to make war do so in consideration of their defense contractor friends. You then went on to claim that Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and the Carlisle Group were deciders and, by implication, involved with defense contractors. The way I read it, those you named were joined at the hip with defense contractors.
If I misread your claim, that in fact you were just throwing names out there to attempt to taint their owners with an unsupportable claim, then I apologize.

Didn't say that. Of course financial institutions advocate for government action beneficial to their interests. But none of the people or companies you mentioned agitated for war-making efforts.

That's what high-ranking politicians do when they leave government service: they join boards of directors.

No obfuscation. Carlisle is NOT a defense contractor. No matter how much you wish it to be so, no matter how much you feel it must be true, no matter how much you need evidence that the Bush administration was but a puppet for the defense industry, Carlisle is not now nor ever was a defense contractor.
Both Clinton (8) and Obama (4) have waged war on more countries than G.W. Bush (2, maybe 3). Heck, even going back, it was FDR that started our involvement in WW2, Truman in Korea, and JFK/LBJ in Viet Nam. It was Eisenhower who got us out of Korea and Nixon who ended the war in southeast Asia. Face facts: The Republicans are the party of relative peace and the Democrats are war mongers.
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And we've ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia.
http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html
The links at the bottom of the page provide some addtional articles of interst.
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<...snipped...>

While I sadly agree with your observation here, I feel compelled to point out that there is little dispute that Nixon prolonged the Viet Nam war for domestic political reasons. And of course you left out Reagan's invasion of Grenada.
--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org
  Click to see the full signature.
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Larry W wrote the following:

To rescue American students, just like Jimmy Carter tried to rescue the American Embassy hostages in Iran. Carter failed, Reagan succeeded,.and then we got out. The Iran hostages were released at the same time Reagan was taking the inaugural address, so he succeeded there too. Oh, and then there was that pesky Iron Curtain thing. Reagan said, "tear down this wall", and they did! .
Bill In Hamptonburgh, NY In the original Orange County. Est. 1683 To email, remove the double zeroes after @
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WHAT the FUCK is wrong with you people????
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On Sat, 23 Apr 2011 16:14:33 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
And it will go on you know?
__ Mark
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Robatoy wrote:

I KNOW it's hard, almost overwhelmingly hard, nearly beyond human endurance hard, for progressives to eschew profanity, but, please, this IS a family-oriented newsgroup.
Think of the children.
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wrote:

"The dawn in the sky greets the day with a sigh for Granada For she can remember the splendor that once was Granada It still can be found in the hills all around as I wand'r along Entranced by the beauty before me Entranced by a land full of sunshine and flowers and song"
Oh, sorry, wrong Grenada ...
"Hello muddah, hello faddah Here I am at Camp Granada Camp is very entertaining And they say we'll have some fun if it stops raining."
What? Oh, Never Mind!
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Are you thick or just pretending to be thick. Please point to where I said Carlisle Group was a defense contractor.
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You didn't. He's indulging himself with a straw man argument. He appears to be Charlie Sheen #winning it.
R
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wrote:

"I have seen it. It also reinforced my wish that those who make the decisions to wage war do so without the considerations for their defense contractor-friends."
-then-
"That's true. Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, The Carlisle Gang et al... none of them were presidents. Where did you get the idea that "those who make the decisions " were presidents?
The implication is certainly there by your inclusion in the list.
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On Apr 23, 11:16am, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

*slaps the big Red Button* <<<<<BUZZZERRRR>>>>
Did I also 'imply' that Cheney was a defense contractor? Did I also 'imply' that Wolfowitz was a defense contractor? Did I also 'imply' that Rumsfeld was a defense contractor?
Is that lot connected to defense contractors? You betcha!
But go ahead, make up your own stories, look like a fool, I really don't give a rat's ass. Mmmk?
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wrote:

You certainly did classify all of them together and that group in the set of "defense contractors". Your words. Sorry.

You admit the point. That's the first step, AIUI.

Obviously you do or you wouldn't spend the energy back tracking.
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