OT: I Don't Think This Company Should Go Bankrupt But - Good Lord!

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Nate B babbles:

WTF would you put it up, then?

Did you read any of Tom's earlier posts, where he attempted to get said information numerous times?
Did you, in fact, read enough to know what is going on, or just enough to make a couple unbased snide remarks?
Charlie Self "It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore
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And you won't find the 360 degree tour any longer, either. That is because that section of the Dell website was updated on April 1. I ordered my laptop on March 28. Fortunately I took a screen shot and saved it.
If you go to the section where you can download the manuals for the 8600, you will see that it comes in two flavors - one with the ports and one without.

Had you read my OP thoroughly, you would have found that I did call Dell and was not able to get a definitive answer from any of the three people that I was passed around to before giving up.
As to the usefullness of a product photo in determining what easily visible components might come with the unit in question - are you really that much of a doofus?

Given the acuity demonstrated in the above, the quality of your opinion is highly suspect.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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"Tom Watson"

Laptops come with and without - floppy drives, CD drives, PCMCI ports, speakers, mice, monitor outputs, yada, yada, yada. Furthermore, Dell is a custom shop. Do you really expect them to provide cute little 3D marketing photos of , literally, the millions of possible options they offer?
Did you blindly expect the last car you bought to come fully loaded like the one on the showroom floor? Do you also get as self righteous with the cook at a place like Denny's when the food doesn't come out looking like the picutre on the menu, or on a plate of the same design? I see Dewalt planers might come with a nice slab of hardwood, some sawdust and perhaps a woodshop to boot. Where's the line for you?
Given some time, I'm sure one could find thousands of products for sale with pictures that depict accessories and variations that are or are not included. Hence - I had to ask if you were born yesterday and perhaps have missed out on your fair share of some of these advertizing images and what they mean.
As to your comment about me reading the OP - of course I read it. You made no phonecall and seemingly didn't bother to read the clearly listed Tech Specs BEFORE you ordered. You earned what you got, IMO.
- Nate
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Someone from the Natatorium spewed some gibberish:
Goodbye, Nate.
I won't miss you.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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"Tom Watson"

Didn't like what I typed?
You're a moron. I get to tell you that. I'm certain Dell would LOVE to say the same to you. You've earned it.
- Nate
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how's your woodworking going, Nate.
I'm guessing about as well as your personal skills allow.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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you should return to grammar school, judging from that little outburst.
dave
Tom Watson wrote:

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"Tom Watson"

My personal skills?
Your personal skills couldn't solve a trite problem ordering your computer from a company that caters to the common public.
You clearly, perhaps accidentally, ordered something that didn't suit you. IMO, it was your fault for not reading the specs carefully. When you found out what you really wanted was going to cost more money, you had a childish tantrum about it. Maybe it's because you don't have much money. I don't know. I imagine you likely confused someone at Dell with your tantrum - but hey, sometimes these guys get confused on their own. Big deal. Some people actually know how to deal with that and move on with their lives - especially considering that it will likely be soon enough when you piss off and/or confuse one of your own customers.
Your self righteousness about the situation and desperate need for vindication and personal validation from as many faceless people as possible for such a small issue is truly pitiful.
- Nate
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I see that little SDS problem is going along well.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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Go Nate!!
dave
Nate B wrote:

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Hey Nate, what's your take on the myth of coplanar?
UA100
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LOL!
dave
Nate B wrote:

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This comment baffles me. How is it relevant that they are "offshore"? What, do you think if they were Americans they would have bent over backwards to help you? Customer Service is strongly tied to a companies priorities and culture, not the location of its representatives. Dell probably (almost certainly) does not empower its representatives to actually do anything for a customer. If it is like most companies of this sort, a note from god is required to remedy a situation by giving the customer something. Most likely they have a "sequence" where the $75 coupon is the most they can offer. The rep is almost certainly unable to override the automated pricing that says the lower price can only be had in conjunction with a purchase. Having worked for a company which didn't have one iota of trust in its employees competence, I can take some pretty good guesses that Dell is firmly in that camp. Funny thing is, the place I worked would gladly pay its "better" people over 100,000 a year, but won't trust them to order something worth $100 without approval from the CFO (and it was a very large company).
Don't blame the poor "offshore", underpaid, overworked sucker. Blame Dell management. Your specific inclusion of offshore smacks of undertones.
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Paul Kierstead responds:

Well, as a start, we might have been able to understand the accents.

Yeah, it does. It smacks of undertones of not liking an additional step that facilitates misunderstanding, instead of understanding. These people are presumably hired for their basic technical abilities, plus the ability to speak English. Every one I've ever talked to fails miserably on the latter requirement, unless the person listening has perfect hearing and a lot of experience listening to different accents and translating to themselves.
I've got plenty of experience with the latter, which is hard to avoid in today's world, but I do not have perfect hearing, unless "perfectly awful" is classed that way.
Even with my phone cranked all the way up, this latest guy drove me nuts.
So, yeah, there are undertones based on "offshore". The biggest one is shitty service. The others are based on the reasons for that shitty service that owuld NOT occur "onshore".
Charlie Self "It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore
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Snip

Just had my own first experience with "offshore" tech support. Oh boy. After the inevitable "Press 1 if youre totally hosed", "Press 2 if your hair is on fire" phone tree, I got the help of a very nice lady-who proceeded to run her script.
You know the one:
(start to explain problem, but no, first we have to get your vitals and a wallet biopsy)
What is your first name? Dale How do you spell that? Dee Ay El Ee (very slowly) Dee Aitch . . . ? D as in dog, A as in apple, L as in leader, E as in Egomaniacal.
And you last name? A as in apple . . . etc. (I'm a fast learner)
This continues through name, phone number, email, model, serial number (god help me), etc.
There were as many as three read-backs for each item.
Great, now we're done with that, I can explain the problem. Less than a minute into it, and it's "Oh, you need to talk to X, I'll transfer you."
"Hello, What is your first name?
(this guy has an even thicker accent-so I start by spelling it out with the whole "A as in apple" bit.)
Between the accent, the static filled connection, and my no longer perfect hearing, this is not going anywhere. I bail, which of course saves them the cost of actually having to deal with the problem.
But I'm a persistent bastard. So, check the company website for any phone number other than tech support. Call corporate headquarters and work my way to a live human being in customer relations. (While I'm on hold the recorded voice keeps intoning that I might get more immediate service by calling-you guessed it, the tech support number.)
You might say I roasted the guy-calmy I might add, but making it clear that this was one pissed off customer.
As a final irony, since the first support person had gone to such heroic lengths to get me entered into the system, I got the online custumer service satisfaction survey the next day . . . .
Some other things you might need to know-before all this:
1) I'd gone through the entire knowledge base of their website-no help there.
2) I'd downloaded the updated device driver for the older model of hardware-purporting to be compatible with the newer system.
3) I'd been in contact via email support system, advice from which amounted to reinstall the OS and all your software, and remove any third-party software. (only stuff on the system came from them) And it was from these emails that I was directed to the tech support phone number.
Did I ever get the problem fixed? Yes, on my own, after about 20 hours of screwing around running all possible variations, and at least a dozen complete re-installs of the OS and sofware. What was the problem? Turns out that the newer piece of hardware was incompatible with an older component from the same manufacturer.
Dale Austin Who loves his Palm Tungsten T3, but thinks the manager of customer support need a good old-fashioned horsewhippin'
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Ok, I admit to having a lot of experience with accents so always find it a little difficult to imagine other people don't, even though I was brought up with a accent so strong that most of Canada wouldn't understand me if I didn't train myself to speak differently (for Canadians, I am a newf more or less...you would see the problem).
But I have encountered so much entirely dismal customer service onshore that I have a hard time believing that offshore has much to do with it. As well, the original problem was a lack of Dell actually addressing the problem, not in communication.
Just my opinion.
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Paul Kierstead responds:

I've got enough myself being form NY with my mother's family all in Virginia or lower.

Yeah, communication IS the problem in a great many instances, and to add an obstacle in the path of help seekers is even more dismal. The lack is in knowledge on the aprt of the help personnel, and poor speaking accents. If Dell has to hire an overseas group to do its help desk work, then I really wish they'd check out the intelligibility of the accents before doing so.
Charlie Self "Adam and Eve had many advantages but the principal one was that they escaped teething." Mark Twain
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On 07 Apr 2004 20:03:16 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) scribbled:

Noo Yok is OK in my ears, but you should hear some Newfs. It would make you yearn for Indo-Pakistani accents any day. Same goes for parts of Maine. I remember driving from Montreal to New Brunswick through Maine because the Trans-Canada was closed along the lower St. Lawrence as a result of a major blizzard. We ended up getting lost somewhere in northern Maine in the middle of a snowstorm and stopped at a gas station to ask for directions. I swear I did not understand a single word the guy said.

I had the same problem with an unintelligible singsong accent from an overly polite person a few years ago when I called SAS customer service in Cary, North Carolina. ;-)
My experience with accents is similar to Paul. I have no problem understanding Indo-Canadians (or other Canadians with non-English accents, like Chinese, Filipino, not to speak of the old Italians, Ukrainians, Hungarians and Glaswegians, and the French, of course). I've also done my best to lose my original French accent, mainly successfully, I tink (superfluous "h" omitted).
But when I called for service on my IBM machine, I had a really hard time understanding the other person who was obviously in India. Luckily, after a while, he switched me to their Canadian office, where I talked to another guy who had an East Indian name and accent, but with the telltale "eh?" at the end of some sentences. He talked me though a few steps and solved my problem in no time (XP had stopped recognising my network card).
So the moral of the story is that they should hire English-speaking Canadians from Quebec west (and maybe Murricans from the areas close to the border and from the west coast), who speak with an accent that is intelligible to all other English speakers. But then, they would have to pay them a decent wage.
Luigi Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
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Luigi Zanasi responds:

Yeah. My kid sisster moved to ME about 40 years ago, give or take. Probably more. I have a a nephew still up there. I have to listen REAL close to what he says.
When I first moved to S. Central VA, I raninto something similar, as the closer to the Blue Ridge (Appalachia) you get, the more extreme the accents get. But my hearing was better back then, so adapting was easier. I still tease my wife about her family's accents though (and wonder how she escaped it), with at least one of my SILs and my MIL pronoucing "picture" as "pixture".

Hey, what can I say. Tarheels. Although he or she was probably from California.

Oddly enough, I have no trouble understaning an Indian accent when I'm face-to-face, or haven't so far. The Bedford, VA area has numerous small store owners (convenience mostly) who are doing well and who are Indian. Gathering rosebuds while they may, I guess, because everyone I've ever talked to plans to retire to India.

And there's the heart of the problem. Do a half-assed (or worse) job cheaply instead of a proper jog at greater expense. And we end up accepting it.
Charlie Self "Adam and Eve had many advantages but the principal one was that they escaped teething." Mark Twain
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snipped-for-privacy@nonet.ca says...

of City Managers. The president of the assoc at the time was from Lagos, Nigeria. I couldn't understand a word he said, although I was told his English was very good. I'd just say good morning and ask him to hold while I passed the phone to Bill :-).
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

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