OT - HUMOR - Ordering pizza in 2008

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Glenna Rose wrote:

So let's, see, how many times has a government agency lied about someone and then claimed that they had waived their right to sue for libel or slander?

So tell us a "horror story" in which someone signed a typical municipal-government waiver of liability and then the municipal government lied about them to a third party and defended itself using the waiver of liability.
--
--John
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.invalid writes:

Hmmm. I don't recall saying *anything* in my writing about a municipal government in any of my message.
My point was, in case you missed it since I didn't spell it out, that people should *read* what they sign and try to understand what it *truly* means, and *can* mean.
If a person is uncomfortable signing a legally binding document, then they shouldn't do it. Period. It makes no difference who the originator of that document might be. Of one thing you can be certain, if someone, anyone, wants you to release them of liability, there *is* a reason they have that desire; matters not to you if it is based on anything in your own life. Whether it might adversely affect you at some future date is your decision to make. But on the chance it happens, say ten years down the line, don't bitch about it. This type of thing happens on rental agreements (do *you* always read the rental agreement "hard stuff" printed on the back of the rental form you sign when you rent equipment, a car, etc.?) which can get the poor soul who was in a hurry and accepted the presentor's "It's just the standard agreement" into trouble. There is no such thing as standard.
Again, a person is prudent in being very careful what is signed, especially in releasing liability of a third party which is exactly the end result of some of those documents being discussed. If you are to sign one of those discussed and I go to work for that agency, I can say whatever I please about you and there's not a damn thing you can do about it; the final test is that you signed releasing the agency and all of its employees and agents from liability. Signing is easy, reading is not; we should do more reading for comprehension.
Our local building maintenance code originally included a proposed ordinance to allow "no holes on the property" with no definition of what a hole is. That is one example of folks not paying attention. Yes, it was corrected before it was enacted as was "no lumber stored on the property without a current building permit" and "no vegetation over 18 inches in height." The writers had a specific thing in mind but didn't look at what they actually wrote!
Glenna
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writes:

Glenna: Nice.
For me it boils down to: it may be legal, but it ain't right.
Bob
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And again, you can thank the trial lawyers for making it necessary.
todd
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Todd Fatheree wrote:

And the bottom line is, how bad does he want the job?

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--John
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wrote in message news:0keLd.137937

That's easy--not that much. It's a 6-night evening course teaching astronomy. Not the core of my personal or financial existence.
Bob
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Bob Schmall wrote:

Then why are you so irate about it?
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wrote in message news:0keLd.137937

I'm not irate. I've had to make a value judgment about whether to surrender some of my privacy in exchange for a temporary part-time job. I've decided that it is not worth it. That's the personal level. Deeper than that, I've been thinking about how much authority a citizen should cede to his government. You know, the old Social Contract thing. Tom Veatch referred to Ben Franklin's statment about giving up liberty for security and having neither, and it fits the occasion perfectly.
Bob
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For some weird reason that brings to my mind a comment by Benjamin Franklin, "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security".
(Not sure that's an exact quote, but perhaps it captures the essence of Ben's statement.)
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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wrote in message news:0keLd.137937

..along with all the sexual predators who employ them. And the Homeland Security folks. And nervous town lawyers and officials. And their insurance companies. And parents, lots of parents. It just ain't so simple, is it?
Bob
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wrote in message news:0keLd.137937

Oh, I forgot. The trial lawyers are just innocent bystanders. They don't have a powerful lobby in Congress to keep laws written the way they like.
todd
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wrote in message news:0keLd.137937

Didn't say that and didn't mean it. What I meant is that there are lots of influences here, that things just ain't so simple that we can blame just one set of people. George Will, a thoughtful conservative, said "The study of history is the best way and, other than by bitter experience, perhaps the only way to be inoculated against the terrible simplifiers, those people who lead nations into trouble." Another way to phrase it: there's a simple answer for everything, and it's always wrong.
Bob

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Bob Schmall wrote:

I'm sorry, but that's not making any sense.

--
--John
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Glenna Rose wrote:

Silly me, assuming that you intended your post to have some relevance to the concerns raised in the post to which I was responding.

While this is perfectly true, it does not mean that one should be as irate as the poster to whom I responded when handed a typical government form.
<remainder of diatribe snipped>
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writes:

I was hardly irate, so don't attribute that to me. My concern was not with the community taking reasonable precautions to protect its citizens and its corporate self. I feel that what information was sought was far beyond anything necessary to determine my qualifications. In fact, I have been asked to grant virtually unrestricted access to personal information, much of it completely irrevelant to the job. I was also asked to waive my rights seek redress if the information was mishandled. I doubt that the form is "typical." If it is, we're just that much closer to a police state.
Bob Schmall
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Bob Schmall wrote:

Take that form, and ask yourself how you would have reworded it as a printed generic form to address your concerns. If you can come up with better wording that will pass their lawyers, they may thank you for it. It sounds like a typical generic form to me. Perhaps you haven't done much work for the government.

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--John
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writes:

At this rate, I'm not likely to...
John I'll be glad to fax you a copy of the authorization. Please email the number.
Bob
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wrote:

Actually, if you think about it, that's not quite true. In something close to a police state, they would simply be asking you (police state -- they would be demanding) for the information and not worrying about whether you cared about how it was used or misused.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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I did not say this was a police state. Taking your example, it IS something close to a police state when the information is required in order to get the job--that's coercion, however mild. Once again, I'll say that the authorities are justified in conducting a background check for anyone in a sensitive position. My concern is that they are asking for too much leeway in seeking it and are asking me sign away my rights.
Bob
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I didn't say you said it was a police state, thus my comment about "in close to a police state they would just ask and not care ..." As far as your conclusion, I certainly agree, it seems like a pretty heavy-handed agreement (sort of a government equivalent of a EULA -- you give up all your rights, they keep all theirs and more). ... and you are right, it is coercion, particularly if everbody starts doing this. Certainly not part of a trend heading in the right direction.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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