OT: Huckabee, Ughh

[dpb]

That's only a small portion. Read in the context of the times and all will become clear...

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[Greg G]

Bombastic first comes to mind...

Greg G.

[Rod & Betty Jo]

And Rwanda was which of the three?

Rod

[Tim Daneliuk]

I'd suggest the single most common cause of mass murder was to band together in the name of "the common good".

[dpb]

Or, does not "Leviathan" ring any bells?

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[J. Clarke]

One reason Africa gets ignored and efforts to "help the Africans" fail is that it doesn't fit in with what "enlightened" people want to believe.

[Rod & Betty Jo]

Rwanda was originally proffered to dispel the silly point Fred attempted to make....

I don't know whom these enlightened people are but I'd think the problem lies a bit closer to home......anything short of overwhelming exterior force require local participants to make the right choices.....akin to the drug addict or the alcoholic, recovery starts within. Rod

[Tim Daneliuk]

You are being very "transgressive" and "culturally insensitive". I suggest you get more PC by reading:

[J. Clarke]

Precisely.

[Rod & Betty Jo]

everything I know including facts, truisms and reality....Rod

[Larry Blanchard]

Funny how the religious folks keep trying to bring science down to the level of religion. False, but funny.

The desk I'm sitting at looks like a solid piece of wood. But I believe it's made up of atomic components and a LOT of empty space. Not because some scientist said so, but because atomic theory both explains and predicts observed physical behavior.

If you can't see the difference it's because you don't want to.

[Larry Blanchard]

Pi is 3.1415...... I exclude the validity of all other values for Pi.

The Earth is round (OK, pear shaped). I exclude the validity of all who say the earth is flat.

IOW, if we didn't do a lot of excluding, there'd be an awful lot of bullshit given credence.

[Tim Daneliuk]

A telling statement of just how arrogant the empiricist community has become. What's funny is that we theists *embrace* Reason, science, and all that it give us - at least most of us do. But it takes an empiricist to look down their nose at all other systems.

You're missing an imporant point: The words "observed" and "predicts physical behavior" are rooted in the (unprovable) assumption that you can reliably measure, observe, and reason about your universe. I happen to share that assumption, but it is not somehow inferior to the assumption that all this had an intelligent first cause. They are both axioms without proof an cannot be demonstrated or falsified.

[Tim Daneliuk]

But these "facts" are the consequence of the axioms of science and mathematics. Notice that I've been careful to not suggest that epistemologies outside science are qualified to comment about what goes on *within* science *and vice versa*. To restate something I said earlier in a different context: I do not read auto mechanics books to understand Biblical text nor do I use the Bible as a guide to repairing my Chevy.

It is the pure Rationalist/empiricists that want the world of knowledge entirely to themselves. My comment throughout all this thread has been consistent: When the topic at hand is amenable to the Rationalist/empiricist method, then by all means, it ought to be used to the exclusion of all other systems. But the R-E method has real limits - notably an inability to comment on First Cause - and in this area, the R-E world needs to swallow some humility pills and accept those limitations ... just as you ask the snake handlers to stay out of science.

[George]

Precisely. Though to my knowledge, only the leaders of the communist faith enunciated the philosophy that the end justified the means directly.

Men will fight for food or territory, but they will die for an ideal or glory.

[George]

Sounds like a precis of the situation in Iraq. Or Haiti, or Bosnia, or Vietnam....

[George]

What's that word? "Believe????" You used it but don't understand? If you can't see that you have a system of belief, different in its canons, but belief nonetheless, it's because you don't want to.

So let the folks who make more money than you pay for all the services you demand as their "fair share," and that only vast conspiracies can bring down the righteous, or other political cant. 'Taint true, but it explains things for you, and that's enough. That's faith.

[GarageWoodworks]

No. You can't *comprehend* science and you *embrace* the irrational. Funny indeed Timmy!

Sorry Timmy. People look down on those that believe in Russell's TeaPot also.

There is no more probability of a "first cause" creator than the existence of Russell's TeaPot.

More TeaPot.

[Dave in Houston]

I forget where this quote came from.

The enduring attraction of war is this: Even with its destruction and carnage it can give us what we long for in life. It can give us purpose, meaning, a reason for living... And war is an enticing elixir. It gives us resolve, a cause. It allows us to be noble. And those who have the least meaning in their lives ... are all susceptible to war's appeal.

[Larry Blanchard]

Thus the only possible comment is "I don't know."

This discussion is going nowhere - count me out as of this post.