OT: Have we become that stupid ..

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Yesterday I was watching the weather girl that was stationed in Florida. Rain pants, Rain/Wind breaker with her head covered. She is reporting that she is getting sand blasted from all the wind and sand while putting on that "I am about to be blown away look". The camera man widens the shot to reveal the local hotel manager standing next to her wearing a button collar t-shirt. As the shot widens farther we see several people wearing typical beach attire. The shot widens farther and to reveal pre school kids playing. She is on the friggin beach! Was she expecting snow? Wind, sand, water, whoda thought? If the clowns really wanted to show what was happening they would have really been blown away.
Our local news girl stands at the low spot of the curb that is channeling water from a morning rain wearing similar gear. I know that she cannot help it but "Treacherous " blurts out of her mouth several times as she points to the 2" of water that she is standing in.
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"Leon" wrote in message

ROTFL! ... remember when the streets in Houston were at grade, there was a ditch in every front yard that drained into a local bayou, and there was NO flooding, street or otherwise?
So much for the wisdom of sending the spawn of 60's flower children to MIT. :)
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LOL I know exactly of what you speak. She makes it sound like the water is teeming with sharks or alligators.
Another one I like is the one where they stand by a road with debris on it and talk about how you would take your life in your hands to drive down this road. Apparently these reporters are not smart enough to drive AROUND the debris. Or get off their fat asses and actually move the stuff out of the way.
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Swingman wrote:

People major in "journalism" because they're not smart enough to do anything useful (engineering, medicine, a trade ...). These "reporters" are chosen for their looks not journalistic ability. Most of them know what they "know" about politics, weather, religion, guns, and business from the Whollyweird movies they watch. The days of Cronkite and Murrow are long behind us. Long live the cutie-pie news reader.
I've been through multiple earthquakes (small-medium) and many instances of winds gusting to 100+ mph. My mamma didn't raise a fool - I stayed *inside* to the degree possible. At no time did I expect reporters to show up and report my "plight" nor did I expect FEMA to show up and make the winds die down. This ability to stay indoors was possible because the people of my hometown - having faced earthquakes and sever storms over the years - *built accordingly*. For example, there were almost no brick structures - wooden building sway, but mostly do not break in an earthquake. Homes were mostly built on high ground to avoid the losses to tsunami. Pretty much everyone had emergency kits in their homes for the next "rocker".
While my heart goes out to the people who've suffered these losses, as someone else here pointed out - they've decided to live and build in a hurricane zone at or below sea level. There are plenty of places to live that do not have this ongoing and consistent risk. An "act of God" kind of disaster is one thing, but constantly placing yourself in harms way is another. But is it any wonder? A good part of the society spends its time shooting itself in the foot and then screaming for the rest of us to pay restitution. I have no ill will and wish no harm upon the people effected by this storm, but somehow, someday, people in this nation are going to have to start taking responsibility for their own choices.
P.S Can you imagine the early Amer-Indians, or the settlers pioneering the Oregon trail, waiting for FEMA to ease their travails?
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"Tim Daneliuk" wrote in message

If only it were so ... unfortunately, lawyer's and governments (or more succinctly, government where the laws are primarily created by lawyers) will insure that never happens.
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Swingman wrote:

that new housing be built to withstand a four foot snow load at the time of an 8.0 earthquake. Overkill? Perhaps, but this last winter when we had close to 30 feet of snow over the winter with 12 feet on the ground at one time, I felt differently. A LOT of decks and many homes collapsed under those loads, even without an earthquake. Maggy figures that the snow will leave the roof when the ground starts to shake. :-)     It'll be 85dF today,     jo4hn
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Swingman wrote:

Don't kid yourself, neither lawyers nor 'government' are responsible for this mess. The sheeple at large have discovered the power of mooching and do not want to give it up. It is the sheeple who elect politicans to loot the public treasury to give them what they want no matter how unreasonable, unethical, or irrational their demands. If you want a good example, just look at the new "right" to healthcare and drug benefits that has been invented. People who never bothered to save for their own retirement needs get to indebt future generations simply by electing the right mix of professional political pilferers. The battle is not with government, it is with your neighbors...
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Tim Daneliuk wrote:
<SNIP>

As I've watched this tragedy unfold, it occurs to me that there is a story within the story. Had the levys held and the pumps worked, this would still have been a disaster but likely not on the scale of what happened with the inundation of water after the levy breaches. One would hope that there will be an accounting the future for those institutions repsonsible for the maintenance of this infrastructure.
In the mean time, we're already seeing the politcal parasites trying to cash in on this. Witness this bit of unbelievable yammering:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/30/230457.shtml
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Tim Daneliuk wrote: ...

Well, doh!
If it had come in directly onto or just west of the city instead of nearer Biloxi, it would have been much worse and there would have been in all likelihood nearly catastrophic levy failure...
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Look no further than Washington. They didn't do important assessments of the levees' conditions due to federal cut-backs. More cut-backs for 2006. The Army Corps of Engineers had their budgets cut.
Now Bush has taken charge of the relief efforts. Just when you thought that things couldn't get any worse.
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wrote:

I have to take exception with that claim. The levies are a New Orleans, Biloxi, etc. problem. It's easy to point to Washington for not funding everything a locale wants in order to live out their chosen life style or location but in what way is the nation responsible for New Orleans being located in an area that only guarantees this sort of disaster? New Orleans hauls in tons of money each year from tourism. Why hasn't *that* money been directed to shoring up their own levies? Why should the nation be responsible for this?
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Because you're all Americans and in this together? Because the protection of the population is a federal mandate when it includes large infrastructures.
People are paying with their lives every day because decisions are made on a federal level.
Using your theory, why not use all those tourist dollars to fix what just went wrong? Should Biloxi casino revenues got to fix NO? It is so easy to step aside and play Whack-A-Mole with 'who is responsible'... bottom line is that a disaster of this magnitude was a known risk. Plenty of people have pointed out that those levees were dangerous. The Army Engineers knew. They wanted more money to rectify a known vulnerability. But you got to cut somewhere if you wanna give your buddies a tax break. But the carnage was put to good use, the gallon is now over 3 bucks.... that oughtta keep some of those buddies happy.
Infrastructure is a federal responsibility when it is a federal agency which has to bail out the victims of a disaster.
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wrote:

No - we pull together when disaster strikes, but to suggest that the New Orleans levies are a national problem is wrong. Like the idiots that build houses on mud hills in California in full awareness that they are going to slide down the hill in a good rain storm, New Orleans knew well what they were facing. It is not a federal mandate to assume the liability to correct every bad decision made by a population.

I love a good rhetorical point, but they seldom really say much. I do love them though...

Ahhh - that would be the difference between responding to a disaster and assuming responsibility for all of the infrastructure of an area. Your point was that the govt was remiss in cutting funding for NO. I don't fully agree.

Which is precisely what I saw you doing in your post that caused me to reply.

Not dangerous. They were designed for Cat 3. It was a design decision based on a lot of factors. Cat 5 upgrades were being designed but that's no overnight process. NO was also allowing itself to be too dependent upon the Corp of Engineers and govt financing. There was a greater role that NO could have and should have played in protecting themselves.
The

Or, if money does not grow on trees. Tell me - do you complain at all about the amount of tax money you pay? Are you disgrunteled at all about the way that money is spent? Why is it so easy to throw this over the wall to Bush (don't get me wrong, I'm no supporter of Bush)? Just an easy target?

Now that's a point we can both agree on in this discussion.

Not all infrastructure is federal responsibility. In every city, every area of the country, infrastructure is a local responsibility. The feds always come to the aid of disaster victims. That a disaster could strike an area is not reason to assign federal responsibility to infrastructure. That logic could apply to every area of this country.
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wrote:

The point I'm holding to is that the levees aren't related to the current shortage of production. They are a coincidental matter. The gulf spills over on a regular basis, the Mississippi gets out of control on a regular basis and levees or no levees, these things have always happened and likely will continue to happen. New Orleans has some major issues to deal with since they are essentially a bowl in between two bodies of water. But that's a New Orleans problem, and it really does not have anything to do with fuel production. There aren't any refineries within the city limits of New Orleans and levees would do nothing to prevent disruption of trade up and down the Mississippi.

Ahhh, the nature of politics. Gotta love it. Same thing in my area.

Agreed, but my point is that the levees around New Orleans that exist to protect the low lying areas of the city are unrelated to the issue of gasoline production. I maintain that those are the responsibility of the city and all though federal help may be appropriate, blame should not be placed on the feds for not stepping up with more money.

Alas, we are something of a kindered spirit on this point.
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Mike Marlow wrote: [snip]>

I don't get to vote for state legislators or fed congressman in my locale. CA (and Texas, Pennsylvania(?), others?) politicians got together and redistricted the whole state into safe election zones. This means that the Republican party picks a candidate, spends almost nothing to win the primary, and a bit to win the election. The Dems, even if they bother to put up a candidate, spend almost nothing. Now before you get your shorts in a bunch, both major parties do the same thing. Even our governator, at the height of his popularity, did not manage to get even one Republican legislator elected. An initiative to assign redistricting to a panel of retired judges is currently losing in the polls.     whine,     jo4hn
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Did you high-light any sections where your Patriot Act makes a mockery of that same Constitution?
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Robatoy wrote:

Listen Sparky, it is not "my" Patriot Act. The political Right is only slightly less obnoxious than the the Left and the Right has been guilty of plenty of abuses of power. But, and just for the record, a good deal of the precedent law that made the Patriot Act possible was passed in the so-called "War On Drugs" during the *Clinton* administration.
So now that we've swatted your ad hominem diversionary response back to the middenheap where it belongs, why don't you answer the simple and direct question:
Please cite the relevant portions of the Constitution Of The US that make it the case that "Infrastructure is a federal responsibility".
With a similarly simple and direct response. I'll make it easy for you by making it multiple-choice:
1) There is no such Constitutional power granted government.
2) There is such Constitutional power granted government and here's the citation:
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I cannot quite agree with you here. If some one threatens to shoot you, read that as you have a lake next to your city and it will spill into your city if you do not maintain the barrier or build it high enough. Are you going to rely or wait for the federal government to tell you to go ahead and defend your self? Read that as make certain that the barrier is strong enough. Over building the barrier for the price of $1,000,000,000.00 would have been far cheaper. Blaming the federal government for not making sure you wipe good after going to the bath room is not going to cut it. Cut backs or not, the New Orleans government should have not let this happen even if they had to completely foot the bill on their own.
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No argument from me, Leon. However, the status quo was that the feds were handling it...or at least supposed to handle it. They didn't. If the NO gov't had no choice but to build up the protection, I have a feeling it would have happened. I could be wrong...not as if THAT hasn't happened before :)
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As long as we're OT and harping on about some of the idiots in the afflicted Gulf Coast areas, take a gander at this:
http://www.illwillpress.com /
Click on the Hurricane Report in the center of the home page.
Warning: Explicit Language but... It says what most of us, I think, are thinking as we watch the aftermath of this storm. If a tragedy like this brings out the best in us, it also brings out the worst as evidenced in this cartoon which hits the nail on the head.
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