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On 12/24/2005 2:54 PM Mark & Juanita mumbled something about the following:

I have no idea what they use at teller stations in branch offices (I haven't been inside a bank in ages, and they were using green screen terminals there).
In our hosting center, admins aren't allowed to connect directly to any server, they connect to a BladeLogic server instead, which connects to the server on their behalf and limits the commands they're allowed to run as well as logging every keystroke.
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Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???
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How's bladelogic working for you guys? We're _this_ close to buying; it's in the budget for '06 and I'm looking forward to it. We should probably make sure we don't work for direct competitors before comparing notes, though.
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On 12/26/2005 10:02 AM Dave Hinz mumbled something about the following:

Using it for the admins and pushing out patches is great. Using it for CRC checks to make sure nothing has changed sucks. Seems it will still check files that you've told to ignore, triggering flags that auditors just LOVE to look at.
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Well, sure. Whatever you have, especially exposed, needs to be secure. But I don't know of anyone who suggests that Linux is less secure than Unix, what with them all running the same stuff for the most part anyway.
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Of course not. It's interesting that at least one online bank has gone to shipping Knoppix (Linux) Live CDs to their customers for use of their banking site. "Here's a hardened OS for your PC, to connect to us with". Yeah, I can dig up a cite if you want to be confrontational.

Yes, I'm familiar with those.

We must work in very different financial industries. Which is odd since the banks whose names are probably on cards in your wallet, don't care what OS we're running anything on. Even the more annoying ones.
5 years ago we had a guy saying much the same thing you are. We made the changes anyway, where appropriate, and the sky continued to not fall, the customers (banks) continued not to stay away in droves, the auditors (internal, government, and "sent by customers") just want to see the vulnerabilities and what we've done about them; not what kernel a piece of hardware is running.
Maybe it's not your boss, who needs the upgrading.
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On 12/26/2005 10:00 AM Dave Hinz mumbled something about the following:

Doesn't matter to me. Connecting to the bank's web interface is considerably different than the server running the apps.

2 of the banks who's cards are in my wallet I KNOW won't allow us to run the apps/database on Linux unless we have a software assurance agreement in place (we have to have it for ANY OS we have for them). RedHat and SuSE (the only 2 64bit Linux versions we have working) both cost well over $1200 a year for their server licensing.

It's not about the kernel, it's about having someone responsible for an issue. Running Linux isn't the problem, it's running a version with no support.

I just go by what we are told. We were told we had to have licensed software for those reasons I mentioned. I'm not the one paying for them, it's ultimately the bank that pays for those licenses, so they dictate what they want to pay for.
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:43:55 -0500, Odinn

/snip/
I work for one of the top 100 corporations in the world that happens to be a bank. Their policy is the same in large part due to SOX & OCC requirements. Open Source including Linux can be used for non-monetary and non-reporting applications like analytics or campaign management. If it is mission critical, customer facing, handles monetary transactions or participates in external reporting there must be a vendor support agreement in place.
Smaller banks within a single state and especially community banks can play a lot faster and looser.
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You say those two things like they're related somehow? Of course you can get a support contract for Linux. Anyone saying otherwise is spreading FUD, either through ignorance, or due to an agenda.

The company I work for (for the next two weeks; just gave notice) is, let's say, a large name in the mortgage insurance business. We've got the same governmental requirements, and were temporarily delayed on several Linux projects by the whole SCO idiocy thing, but I stand by my statement that the SOX and other folks want to know about recordkeeping and policies and procedures, how vulerabilities are handled, and all that, more than what type of Unix we're running.
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wrote:

You snipped a little too much. Odinn typed "won't allow us to use Linux unless we pay for support" which is true for us,too. We actually have some Linux supported by IBM.

I've been audited by OCC, PwC, E&Y, and the 2 internal groups. All but the internal groups are interested in the supportability of the OS and all other software as a SOX control point. I suppose that it might be possible to argue that the necessary support exists within the organization but I've generally heard from other bank IT guys that the path of least resistance with the highest level of CYOA is hire that control point out. I've always gotten away with convincing them that we are purely analytic.
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Dave Hinz wrote: <snip>

Good books. I almost didn't read 2 & 3, 'cause I didn't see where he was going with book one, but I'm glad I did.
R, Tom Q.
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On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 18:58:28 -0500, Tom Quackenbush

Ah, I _didn't_ read book 2 and 3, because, well, I didn't see where he was going with book one. So it's a book to add to the pile, then?
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Dave Hinz wrote:

I think reading book 0 before book 1 will raise your curiosity enough while reading book 1 to continue on to 2 (& 3).
er
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Um. Can I get a guide to the numbering as used in this context, please?
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Dave Hinz wrote:

Book zero would be Cryptonomicon... mostly relatives of the characters in the trilogy.
er
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Dave Hinz wrote:

Well, if nothing else, you'll get some closure. I think you'll find books 2 & 3 much more enjoyable reads, though. I found myself looking forward to reading them every day, as opposed to book 1, which I sort of slogged through.
R, Tom Q.
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On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 20:21:15 -0500, Tom Quackenbush

Yeah, me too. I finished it out of sheer obstinance (no, really. Imagine that, of me.) So, 2 & 3 are a bit less sloggy, then?
Dave "I may have just invented a word there..." Hinz
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Wha- ha-ha-ha!!!!
Good joke Dave!
Having handled systems with various linux and Unix versions (solaris, redhat, gentoo, debian etc) I can say that they are more stable than windows but only don't require tweaking if nothing is done to them. If you keep adding/updating software, you will tweak forever. Installing software can be anything from a piece of cake to a nightmare to an exercise in futility. I've had shells stop working mysteriously, software come up with bizarre error messages and stop working and so on. "nix" systems are better, but they are far from perfect.
I only wish "user friendly" wasn't a derogatory term among the linux crowd.
Mike
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Something funny?

Care to explain?

Yes, installing or building software does take time. But that's not tweaking the OS with the virus-of-the-week updates now, is it. The context given was "I can keep tweaking XP and it's just fine for security and stability", which is considerably different from "I can install software on a server".

Never said they were. I said they're secure and stable out of the box, in sharp contrast to Microsoft's products which ship in "take me, big boy" mode.

Yawn. I'm sure there's some .advocacy group where people would be happy to correct you on that.
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FYI, I never mentioned "constant tweaking."
In fact, I rarely have to do anything to my system once the OS, drivers and applications are installed and certain housekeeping things are done.
Most of the "tweaking" steps required are to set certain services to Automatic, Manual or Disabled; and deal with application options to further enhance system performance. And with SP2 many of those Services tweaks are now unecessary because they are turned off by default.
And, of course, it's effortless to turn a lengthy XP install down to a hands off routine using a simple disk imaging app like Ghost or an installation scripting routine.
But anyone who thinks that *nix can run without at least some amount of tweaking (epecially when dealing with graphics hardware) is simply stuck in a quaint little fantasy.
Here, on someplace I like to call Planet Earth, we all know better.
Matt
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Maybe "tweaking" means something different in your world? To me, it means "go back and change it again to get/keep it working". Are you maybe using "Yes, that which you have autodetected is, in fact, my hardware" as a definition for tweaking?
Whatever. Our experiences differ. Mine are current.
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