OT FIRST RUN WOODWORKS

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I like you last statement because I say the same thing. I am better than some and not as good as others. And no matter who you are, what you do, or who your mommy is, someone else is better at something.
Marks may be the guy in front of the camera, but the people behind the camera are people who actually perform. Same as Norm. It would interesting to see how crappy or good his work is if the camera never left the work piece and no one else was allowed near it until completion.
Most of the people I know are either very good at construction methods or very good at a finish, but seldom both. We are all in too much of a rush. When I show off my work I get the oohs and aahs but few people see the screw ups. I see them all and am my own worst critic.
To be publicly harshly critical of someone else is way out of line and hardly constructive. For that Marks get low marks. Maybe that's how Marks is to everyone off camera. Or maybe he really was having a bad day.
As a critique of my own, his projects have the look of 10th grade industrial arts projects. Using exotic woods doesn't make them better.
P
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I would change that to say "Marks may be the guy in front of the camera but the people behind the camera also perform". Granted there are people behind the scenes and Marks openly acknowledges that, but they are doing work at his direction. You can't take away from the guy what he rightfully deserves. The only reason those people are behind the scenes is because of production schedules, not because he lacks the talent to do it.

Hey - genuflect when you say that...

I doubt either of them would turn out a crappy piece of work.

Most of the talented people I know are indeed good at both. That's part of what makes us call them talented.

Agreed.
I'm no fan of his work either. I can though, appreciate his talent.
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-Mike-
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but
behind
of
I've met Marks, Abram, and Underhill (and many other "names" for that matter) and I've seen their work... Each is different from the other and they aren't trying to be the same.
IMHO Marks is working more in the art arena than the others and I've often thought that there were more efficient ways to perform some of the tasks he shows on Woodworks. When it comes to the completed product his work is very well finished, with tight joints and there are no obvious errors, so who am I to criticise his processes?
I saw Abram's Butterfly table prior to that show airing and by his own admission his finishing wasn't up to snuff at that point. The workmanship was OK but not in the same league with Marks--the top was not as uniformly flat as it could have been and the finish was not flat and smooth. I suspect his more recent furniture efforts exhibit better finishing as he has put effort to improving that area of his work.
Regarding Underhill, by self proclamation he said that "high def" may kill him... draw you own conclusions!
However, and to me it is a huge however, Undershill's work is perhaps closer to Pye's notion of the workmanship of risk than the others. Marks is perhaps at the other extreme as he creates elaborate jigs for everything--though his designs are riskier. Abram is middling compared to the other two with more elaborate designs than Underhill though simplier than Marks's, lots of jigs and powertools, and more modest finishes than Marks--you seldom see Underhill apply finish (ignoring the sweat and blood jokes).
I find them all interesting and credit Underhill more than the others will allowing me to teach my young sons woodworking. When they met him and saw him work they came to understand that you can make beautiful and intricate things with hand tools... Prior to that they were of the impression that only a shop and processes like Abram's resulted in anything useful and beautiful.
Chris Schwarz was a huge help in getting my sons to understand that I was giving them good instruction. At my club's Showcase in April Schwarz did a presentation on sawing--3 grades, e.g., whack it off, length critical, appearance and length critical. After he showed all three and was wrapping up the section on best quality sawing I turned to my sons and said, "You guys already know how to do that don't you." They both lite up and said "Yeah!" Marks inspired my older son to think beyond flat and square designs when he built his light house model for Showcase. Abram drilled it into their heads to always put on safety glasses and when needed hearing protection--I NEVER have to remind them.
I've come to the conclusion that picking a favorite is probably a good way to limit your own skill set... there is value in each. I enjoy going to the turners' club meetings though I'm not a turner as I get to see some really interesting things there that give me ideas...
Anyhow, that's my opinion and I'm now stepping down off the soap box... ;~)
John
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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:12:26 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

I've never met him.
I get the impresssion from your post that he was being paid for a PR visit. Certainly a different standard than if he was running his school. Almost an imperative that one be constructive and courteous with comments, particularly in a group of people of diverse skill levels.
I've been around Norm Abram, and to a lesser extent, Scott Phillips, for a number of paid PR sessions and with them socially before or after the sessions. Despite the fact that they were confronted with a full spectrum of personalities and skill levels (some I'm sure, more skilled then they are), they were always gracious. And even with the guard dropped, you never heard after the fact, "boy, what a bunch of jerks, glad thats over".
From the part of the video I watched, I concluded that Marks was through with sponsorship and out of the business of payment for PR. Maybe that's a good thing, he may be too artistic and not have the patience for it.
Frank
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"Frank Boettcher" wrote

The truly talented/artistic are often difficult at the best of times, regardless of the business they're in.
Add in a bad day "on the road" and it could have just been "one of those days", regretted by all. We all have them.
However, and strictly my opinion you understand, men who dye their hair at 55, and are artists to boot, well ...
... you fill in the blanks. ;)
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Well, I considered it, however, procrastination has resulted in an ever declining need since it has become much harder to gather up something to dye. :)
Frank
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I was critical of his own work earlier, but not the hair. That's too personal. But has anyone noticed that his black brylcreamed hair gathers no wood dust? What's the secret?
P
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That's too easy ... he doesn't do the actual work. :)
This is TV, son ... what you see has no bearing whatsoever on reality.
Why do you think politicians can get away with what they do, eh? (besides the rampant stupidity/apathy of the populace, that is)
Don't get me wrong, I like DJM immensely and have a lot or respect for what he does do, but I'm also well versed in the realities of TV/video production.
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Soooooo.. are you saying that when Julia Childs slid a roast in the oven, and took it out 45 seconds later....it COULD have been shenanigans/video/time-lapse kinda trickery? Is that why my 20-second souffles were always very runny?
r
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Soooooo.. are you saying that when Julia Childs slid a roast in the oven, and took it out 45 seconds later....it COULD have been shenanigans/video/time-lapse kinda trickery? Is that why my 20-second souffles were always very runny?
*************************************************************
Robatoy - get with it man. It's Rachel Ray now, not Julia Childs. And Rachel Ray can slide anything she wants in my opinion. Of course, I'm speaking of the fact that she's a good upstate NY girl...
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Mike Marlow wrote:

Enjoy her looks while you can - at the rate she's going she'll be 300lbs+ in a couple of years.
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No kidding. I caught a glimpse of her while surfing through the channels not too long ago and man - she was putting it on then.
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On Thu, 1 May 2008 16:33:10 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

I don't know Mike, I like cute, perky and bubbly pretty much, but I've got to go with Giada De Laurentiis.
Frank
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First I'd heard of her. Had to do some google stuff. Hot. Very hot. Maybe I need to start watching a bit more cooking TV.
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Meh.... pffff... I have been rejected by better looking women than that.
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On Thu, 1 May 2008 17:39:05 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

Hey now, the population we're restricted to here is celebrity female cooking show hosts. Your candidate is........? ;)
Frank
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nigella
On Fri, 02 May 2008 07:10:19 -0500, Frank Boettcher

Tom Watson tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet www.home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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Yowsa... I just ga-ga-ga-Googled her... My goodness....
I see, I see.. I BELIEVE!!!
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"Robatoy" wrote in message On May 2, 9:00 am, Tom Watson wrote:

Like that type, eh? Brings to mind Daljit Dhaliwahl.
... so I married a blonde, go figure ...
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It was also an added attraction that she can cook.
That type can be sexy as ol' get-out. She's no Bebe Neuwirth or Jan Smithers, but nice.

So did I. We just celebrated her 41st. Angela certainly put a dead stop to any thoughts that blondes are dumb.
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