OT: drywall corner bead

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FWIW... a pneumatic stapler makes *really* short work of putting up corner bead. The metal kind, that is. Beats the daylights out of trying to hold the bead tight against the corner with one hand, hold a nail with your other hand, and swing a hammer with your other other hand... and for overhead work, like on the edge of a soffit, it's waaaaaaay easier on a shoulder joint that's <mumble> years old and was first diagnosed with bursitis at the ripe old age of thirty.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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This makes even shorter work of it...
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn2986
No nails or staples required at all.
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wrote:

Gotta wonder how well that bead stays in place when it's not fastened into the framing behind the drywall... I think I'll stick with the stapler.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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I've used it for quite awile, never had a problem. (A LOT of drywall guys use them).
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What forces are on a corner that requires it to be fastened so thoroughly? The drywallers around here use mud-on corners now. No nails or staples at all. They're just put on by embedding them into a bed of mud. Our guy (union drywaller with 20+ years of experience) prefers them because they go on straighter as they're not pulled to either side, nor do they have divets in them, where they're fastened. He's the expert, so I'm just going by what he says.
Mike
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A bump by a kid. 4 or 5 years ago I was doing some warranty work for a large builder in the Houston area. He was having a lot of call backs for corners that were poping loose.

Well that sounds scary. The demples get covered by the mud which should be put on both edges of the corner. Who does he work for?
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Leon wrote:

You give me any installation of anything, and I'll give you an example of something that went wrong. Beads are no exception.

Why is that scary? The mud-on corners are paper faced - the same paper tape that is used to cover the joints. There is no flex in a corner as there's a stud behind it for the entire length and the paper tape holds up just fine in the middle of the stud bay where there is flex.
The paper faced mud-on corners are gaining popularity because there are also application tools. There's one to spread mud on both sides of the corner and another to press the corner into the mud and smooth it.
The biggest problem with the mud-on corners is air bubbles. If the installer uses too much and too thick mud bubbles can get trapped behind the corner bead as it's neither the metal nor paper are perforated.
R
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Umm 4 or 5 inside corner beads in the high traffic areas in most of the houses in a 1 year old neighborhood that is not built out yet? I don't think so. And finding a problem with any install is not a particular tallent.

Again I say that this practice is scary. You end up with a house that looks battered in a matter of a few years. Although they use the same paper on the corners as the joints that is an entirely different matter. Inside corner joints and flat wall joints use the paper simply to cheaply cover the joint and give the mus something to stick to. Using only paper and mud on an exterior corner in just asking for trouble down the line and the sine of a builder that is cutting corners. The paper holds up just fine until it gets bumped by any hard object.

I suspect that they use this method to save time and money.

Not a unique problem.
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Leon wrote:

Inside corner beads? Inside corners don't use beads, they're just taped. Regardless, the fault lies with the installer, not the product. My point was that some isolated instances of faulty installation doesn't condemn a product - or shouldn't.

Well, considering that is how I make a considerable portion of my livelihood, I may disagree with you. Seeing the problem isn't the trick, it's diagnosing its cause and prescribing an antidote.

It's really no more susceptible to damage than the standard perforated metal or plastic corner beads.

The mud-on corner bead itself is an unperforated metal corner bead - it's actually stronger than the perforated metal corner beads. The paper facing is the way the bead is held on to the wall.

You make that sound like a bad thing. _Drywall_ is a way to save time and money.

Agreed. It's a little more insidious, though. You won't always see the bubbled edge of the tape immediately after applying the bead - particularly if the bedding mud wasn't thinned enough.
You have the right attitude, though. It's always safer to stick with the tried and true until the new and improved has some history.
R
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Mike Dembroge wrote:

One decent shot from a kid or some furniture on moving day, and off it comes... 8^(
I've even seen that stuff pop and crack the surface when the framing dries and the wall has some slight movement in it.
Barry
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On 24/02/2006 8:18 AM, B a r r y wrote:

You been snooping in my place??? :-) I've spent countless hours fixing poorly-attached (read, "crimped") corner-bead. It's a major PITA. Just nail it now and get it over with. Otherwise, you might find yourself nailing it some time down the road anyway.
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Amen. I wasn't sure about using the staples... 'til I applied a short strip a bit crooked, and had to pry it off to replace it. Only about 1/3 of the staples pulled out -- the rest tore through the metal. I think they'll hold.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

How is it possible to install cornerbead crooked???
Never the less, if you have problems with crimped cornerbead, it wasn't installed correctly. But hey, don't pay attention to the experts..... since you just figured out that you can *STAPLE* cornerbead, it's quite obvious you are the expert.
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wrote:

Didn't have it perfectly aligned with the edge, thought I did, stapled it up, looked at it, and said, 'that looks like s**t'.

Well, I'm just having a bit of a hard time understanding how crimping it into the drywall is just as secure as nailing it into the studs. Maybe you can explain that one to me.

Hey, I'm a woodworker, not a drywall finisher. I never claimed to be an expert. Since you seem to be... why don't you explain how the other guys who have griped in this thread about problems with crimped or mudded corner beads are wrong?
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

It wouldn't have done that if you had used a crimper..

Who said it is *AS* secure? screwing hinges on with wood screws is less secure than using lag bolts, do you use lag bolts to attach your hinges? :)

I don't need to explain how they are wrong, they just are.... almost ALL professional installers use crimpers.
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Maybe you're right. But I don't have a crimper, and I do have a pneumatic stapler. :-)

Comprehending hyperbole isn't one of your strong points, I see. The point is, serious questions have been raised in this thread regarding the holding ability of a crimped bead vs. a nailed one. Care to address those?

Ahhh, I see... you don't know, either. Had it occurred to you that professional installers might use crimpers because they're *faster*, not necessarily because they're better?
And, of course, they don't typically live in the houses they're building, either. I wonder what the pros use when hanging drywall in their own homes.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

I don't know because they gave no details, but I would speculate excessive wear/stress on the corner or poor installation.

How about they are *faster* and good enough?

Most likely they use crimped on corners, I do.
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wrote:

Actually, they and I use cornerbead "clinchers." ;~)
After I clinch the corners on, which gets them tight and straight on the corner, I put screws in at about 16", 32" and 48" heights from the floor--one screw on each side at each height. A union drywaller told me about that technique... the idea is that it gets the corner on straight and tight and the screws help keep it from being busted off if someone bashes it with furniture, etc. In commercial work with rubber base he also puts screws in near the floor but in residential work with wood base he doesn't bother.
Sure it's "belt and suspenders" but it beats the hell out of fixing corners that have pulled loose or that were installed loose and/or crooked.
John
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Now THAT is a snazzy tool......I had not seen one of those.

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wrote:

I was just talking about crimpers in a reply to what I guess is another part of this thread.
These are what I've used for years.
I've still got a Goldblatt and a Marshalltown in my mud bag.
I think that the best two features of these tools is that they make you get the bead on straight and you never have problems with fasteners that stand proud of the knife edge when the beads get mudded.
The only problem I ever ran into is when the rockers put the beveled edge on the corners. Then the crimpers don't grip right and you are relying more on the mud than you should.
I've had guys argue with me that doing it their way brings the bead into plane with the face of the rock, but that's not the way it was intended to be.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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