I am Not saying that only a professional teacher can teach. I am saying that my department is not willing to take the chance on someone that has never taught a class before. It's just a matter of "prudence". Plenty of things go astray every semester even without taking such risks.
Yes, but the notion of asking an education major to teach computer science is absurd.
That had to do with the fact that they would be teaching minors. The laws are strict to protect minors. Colleges are different--they establish their own policies. However they will act in ways to maintain or enhance their accreditation with accreditation bodies. These concerns are not taken lightly.
Nothing has changed for over 50 years?
Really?
Protect them from what, getting a decent education?
I'm just presenting what I know or believe. I wasn't present at the debate and am not even taking sides. I believe some states (including LA?), started allowing professionals to teach a few years ago. I'm not sure how that went. Perhaps someone can confirm.
Bill
That is not what you said. YOu were making a general statement. The argument is nuts anyway. There is no magic to teaching. ...well, other than having a good grasp of the subject matter (something "professional teachers" *very* often don't have).
You're the one who was saying otherwise.
In that regard, not really. Just more of the same.
Really. My father died in '65. He had the same sorts of issues with his employer (a top university). The problem then was professors who didn't teach and the flood of Indian graduate student teaching assistants and instructors who couldn't speak English. Not a lot of difference.
krw: replied
"There is no magic to teaching. ...well, other than having a good grasp of the subject matter"
If you took that attitude into the classroom you'd disappoint everyone except yourself (seriously)! You may get away with it in a class of graduate students, but at the other end of the spectrum you'll encounter real issues if you are concerned about student success. If you expess a sentiment like the one above during a teaching interview, you won't be teaching.
Ironically, you don't need a "perfect understanding" of the subject matter to be a good teacher. You might even be a better teacher if you don't have it (and in many cases, concerning ever-changing technology for instance, it's practically impossible to have it).
I hope you have a chance to teach someday, and I hope you get great results! However, before you do so, you'll have to learn something about teaching. The students will not applaud you over your knowledge, no matter how vast--in fact, if it appears too vast, they will tune you out even faster. The sooner you accept this, the sooner you can be an effective teacher.
Bill
In article , " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote: [...]
Absolutely untrue. That is only half the battle.
Two things are required in order to be able to teach:
1) Adequate knowledge of the subject matter 2) The ability to communicate that knowledge effectivelyThe latter category includes being able, when necessary, to explain the concept in more than one way. When students experience difficulty grasping a new concept, they often find it difficult to express exactly what it is that they don't understand, or why they don't understand it. The best teachers are those who can see where the students are having difficulty, and guide them past the trouble spots. All this is part of communicating knowledge effectively -- if I explain a concept in terms that are perfectly clear to
*me* but unclear to *you*, I have not communicated effectively. Moreover, if the concept is unclear to you, you probably do not know *why*. It's up to me to figure out why my explanation was unclear, and recast it in terms that will be clear to you. If I cannot do this, my communication will continue to be ineffective.A person may be the leading expert in the universe on a particular subject, but if he is unable to communicate that knowledge clearly to another person, he *cannot* be an effective teacher.
Wrong. THat's the only "magic". Everything else is natural.
Try teaching HS kids math without understanding math. Ditto physics....
You've already made it clear that you're rather hire a "professional teacher" who knows nothing of the subject matter. You're wrong. That's what we have.
Utter nonsense.
I have! Are you an English teacher? ;-)
You 100% wrong about everything you've said so far. ...particularly about me.
No, you really have to know it. You'll find out quickly enough how little you really know when you have to teach the subject.
He cannot be an effective teacher if he doesn't know the material, either. That's what we have with "professional teachers".
^ and Chinese
No kidding ... and 2 above leads to the other requirement: ability to motivate the student.
IME, that is the "magic" part ... some have it some don't, and those that do will magically transform an unmotivated student into a motivated student.
I know, because it happened to me. AAMOF, 63 years since starting school, I still remember the names of those few who exercised that "magic" on me ... the rest are not even a blurred memory.
It's not necessary to possess expert knowledge of a subject in order to teach it. The ability to communicate what knowledge one has, is far more important to effective teaching than the extent of one's knowledge. If I can communicate clearly what I know about a particular subject, then what I can teach you about it is limited only by the extent of my knowledge -- and if I know everything there is to know about that subject, but cannot communicate it, I can't teach you a damn thing.
That, of course, is obvious. I was responding to your contention that that was
*all* that was required. Anyone who has taught for even one semester knows that's not the case.Correction: that's what we have with *some* professional teachers.
Try teaching *anything* if you can't communicate it clearly. Let me know how well that works for you.
Let's do a thought experiment. For the purposes of the experiment, we will stipulate that you have expert knowledge of chemistry, and that you speak, understand, read, and write only Polish, and no other language. Your assignment is to teach high school chemistry in Birmingham, Alabama.
How helpful is that expert knowledge of chemistry in teaching a classroom full of students who can't understand anything you say?
---------------------------------------------------- Talk about total BULL SHIT.
Lew
Try teaching *anything* you know nothing about. Let me know how that works out for you.
Reverse it.
I never contended otherwise. You, on the other hand, contended that knowledge of the subject was the only necessary attribute to be able to teach.
So you think that you'd be able to teach that class -- after all, you have expert knowledge of the subject, and (according to you) that's all that's necessary.
How helpful is that expert knowledge of chemistry in teaching a classroom full of students who can't understand anything you say?
============
University Professors are typically prime examples of that concept at work. It works there, barely. Sometimes their tape players are hard to understand in a classroom of 500 students too.
I'm sorry, if I forgot certain personal details that you shared. Among details I don't try hard to remember are peoples ages, for instance. AFAIC, everyone here is either young or young at heart.
Bill
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