OT Completely!!! Spanish? Que?

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To my way of thinking it's nothing to get upset about. Knowing two languages does nobody any harm, children learn multiple languages far more easily than adults, and adults who know two languages generally have a lot less trouble with learning another than do those who only know one, so if he starts out with English and Spanish, later if he wants to learn Japanese or Russian or Aramaic or whatever he'll have a leg up.
In many localities the Catholic schools, which nobody has ever accused of being bastions of political correctness, start a second language in second or third grade--in Louisiana and Canada it's French, don't know what they do elsewhere.
Further, it's an odd thing about languages--different languages express things differently--something that one can say in a few words in one may take several paragraphs in another--knowing two gives you an alternative way of looking at things which can sometimes help with problem solving.
Further, in many parts of the US today, "yo hablo espanol" is a useful thing to have on a resume for just about any job that involves interacting with the public.
Rather than fighting it I'd say to encourage him at every opportunity.
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I read the OP's post and quickly scanned through the FU's. Here are my quick and disjointed thoughts, as meaningless as they may be.
The OP finds it "unbelievable" for the very reasons, no doubt, that my initial reaction is.
It's Spanish.
He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it. Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us the choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why only Spanish?
We're a nation of immigrants. And many of us, if we were lucky enough to have parents who had the pride and forethought to teach us, learned another language (or more). But we were taught to keep it at home, not "demand" that "the state" and businesses conform to us. Because we're a nation of immigrants, we need a single common language to be used: English. No choices. It's either English only, or all. Why discriminate?
Before you go lambasting me, know that I am thoroughly convinced that bilingualism/multilingualism is a very good thing for individuals. I tell my immigrant friends that they should speak only their native language(s)--Spanish included!--to their kids at home. Offering Spanish in schools is good too: if there's a choice. I know that other than French, some elementary schools offered either German or Russian also. Many high schools no doubt did offer more than English, French, Spanish and the classics. But it seems that we've spiraled down to just English and Spanish. Why? (Even Latin, which I studied for 5 years, and classical Greek are less prominent in HSs than just a decade ago.)
I was borne and raised in the states, but did not speak English until I went to kindergarten. From the time my boys were borne, I've only communicated in Hungarian with them and their English language skills have obviously benefited from it. And when we have to pick either Spanish or French when they enter third grade, I'll push for French.
Lord knows, they're exposed to enough Spanish-no matter how informally-and they'll be "quad-lingual."
To keep on topic, here are your Hungarian words for the day: Fa - wood Tolgyfa - oak Nyirfa - birch Juharfa - maple Cseresznyefa -- cherry
I've wasted enough of your time... -- regards, greg (non-hyphenated american) http://users.adelphia.net/~kimnach
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Do you think Jose would learn English more quickly if he was spoken to in Spanish or English? When I was a graduate student, I worked in a lab with students from several different countries. The foreigners were forbidden from speaking their native language to each other while in the lab in order to build their English speaking skills. Much like the foreigners in my lab, I think Jose would learn English faster if he was 'forced' to learn English. There would be more motivation for Jose if my son couldn't speak Spanish. Comprende?

I'm not sure, yo think it is possible. :)

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Stoutman wrote:

I'm not sure I do.
Are you saying that teaching American born children foreign languages interferes with foreign born children learning English?

I expect it has been studied.
You can probably get an intelligent discussion of the issues over in misc.kids or sci.lang.
Much as I appreciate it that you value my opinion, if you don't post there, should I not conclude that you really are not interested in having an intelligent discussion with knowledgible people?
--

FF


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<snip of some good stuff>
Right on brother!!!!
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Greg Kimnach wrote:

Because the current wave of people speaking another language as a first language are Spanish speakers and the companies want their business. IOW, $$$. _____________

You *could* have included a guide to pronunciation you know. :)
OK, I can manage "fa". Probably :)
--

dadiOH
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snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:

Sorta. I've messed with Spanish since my university days - 50 years - and retired to Mexico for a while (now in <ugh> Florida thanks to wife). I sometimes can't think of the word I want in one language but the other language equivalent comes to mind instead.
The most frequent problem though is in spelling, especially of cognates - words in both languages that have the same meaning and similar but different spellings. For example, "attention" in English, "atencion" in Spanish. Generally no problem with the tion/cion but I sometimes forget the second "t" in English.
By and large it is no problem and the benefits of a second language greatly override any occasional minor problems.
--

dadiOH
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dadiOH wrote:

One wonders if that effect is exaggerated by learning the language at a late age. My guess is yes, for the same reason it is harder for peopel to use grammatical consturcts they learned at a later age. After 12 or so, the way the brain learns language changes, using much more of the brain than the parts used for languages learned earlier.
--

FF


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Because there is a big push to eliminate the American Mexican border. Cheap labor you know. Anything for buisiness.

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*snip*

*snip*
I'd like to point out that this is also true of machine programming languages. Something expressable in 3 Lines Of Code in one language may take 30 or 50 in another.
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
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Puckdropper wrote:

Que viva assembler! :)
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He said 30 or 50, not 300 or 500. ;-)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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In my 360 days I could solve a problem faster in assembler than could a colleague in PL/1. And the resulting program ran 10 times faster.
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Bob Martin wrote:

Ditto. *Much* tighter code too (therefore, faster). Not to mention device control...
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My first assignment out of college was writing TI-9900 Assembly code for embedded test equipment control. My last contribution to that assignment was the hardware and software design for a specific test box; so I do understand the speed efficiency and the ability to do device control quickly. However, after becoming an analyst and systems engineer, I have decided that speed of execution for many applications is way low in importance relative to speed of coding. For example, at a higher level than even Fortran or C, how long do you think it would take to program the following in assembly code?
fid = fopen(filename, 'r'); y = fread(fid); fclose(fid);
x = length(y);
figure(1); plot(x, y, '-xr'); title('Data Plot'); xlabel('Data Point Number'); ylabel('Data');
After doing that, I decided I really don't like writing "for" loops
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Mark & Juanita (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
| My first assignment out of college was writing TI-9900 Assembly | code for embedded test equipment control. My last contribution to | that assignment was the hardware and software design for a specific | test box; so I do understand the speed efficiency and the ability | to do device control quickly. However, after becoming an analyst | and systems engineer, I have decided that speed of execution for | many applications is way low in importance relative to speed of | coding. For example, at a higher level than even Fortran or C, how | long do you think it would take to program the following in | assembly code? | | fid = fopen(filename, 'r'); | y = fread(fid); | fclose(fid); | | x = length(y); | | figure(1); | plot(x, y, '-xr'); | title('Data Plot'); | xlabel('Data Point Number'); | ylabel('Data'); | | After doing that, I decided I really don't like writing "for" | loops
Hmm. Two minutes? I'm assuming that the functions invoked have already been programmed - if not, then add an hour.
Just by accident, I happened to have these on-line:
http://www.iedu.com/mrd/c/plot_pkg.c
and
http://www.iedu.com/mrd/c/PCHR.ASM
The first will plot your graph on an Epson FX-80 (the title and label functions are in another file, not on-line), and the second is for a CP/M putchar-like function. fopen(), fread(), and fclose() are similarly quick and easy. <g>
You didn't specify what figure() does, so I didn't include it in the estimate.
Optimizing compilers have pretty much eliminated the assembly language performance advantage...
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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<...snipped...>

Does calling the same functions from assembler code count? :) (and what's with the single quotes?)
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - snipped-for-privacy@charm.net
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On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 00:53:25 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@fellspt.charm.net () wrote:

I think the fair rule is that you only get to use the commands that are intrinsic in the language being used. :-)
Single quotes are Matlab's string delimiters.
Same thing in C or C++ would have required developing the plot functions, and a significant number of "for" loops.
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Dios Mio!
Talk about an off-topic thread going off-topic! :)
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Stoutman (in nfmVg.2044$ snipped-for-privacy@tornado.southeast.rr.com) said:
| Dios Mio! | | Talk about an off-topic thread going off-topic! :)
Sometimes these things just SNOBOL out of control <vbg>
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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